F1 2023 driver rankings

[Guthrie]

1. Max Verstappen
2. Lando Norris
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Oscar Piastri
5. Lewis Hamilton
6. Carlos Sainz
7. Charles Leclerc
8. George Russell
9. Sergio Perez
10. Alex Albon

[bathurst77]

So many people didnt give Lawson a rating as not enough starts to tell, but did give Ricciardo a rating despite few starts.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

So many people didnt give Lawson a rating as not enough starts to tell, but did give Ricciardo a rating despite few starts.

Yes, I don't quite follow that. There also seems to be quite a difference in Daniel's positioning too. For me, he has to be pretty low down. If I rated them both I'd have to place Lawson well above Ricciardo.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yes, I don't quite follow that. There also seems to be quite a difference in Daniel's positioning too. For me, he has to be pretty low down. If I rated them both I'd have to place Lawson well above Ricciardo.

This

[S griffin]

I think Ricciardo deserves credit for his comeback, but I don't get how people won't rate Lawson due to so few races, despite acquitting himself well. Ok, he didn't do as many races as Danny Ric, but still. You can't rate one and not the other

[BTCC frog]

Daniel Ricciardo did seven races, Liam Lawson did five. My cut-off is usually a quarter of the season so Ricciardo just gets a placing and Lawson doesn't. But I agree that Ricciardo's return was disappointing (hence why he is below Tsunoda in my ranking), and thought Lawson impressed more over his five races.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'd have to place Lawson well above Ricciardo.

Definitely, Lawson performed better than I expected, Ricciardo worse than I expected.

[Tourer]

Oscar Piastri FIA Rookie of the Year for the 2nd time - from an Aussie newspaper so a bit jingoistic but good to share some positive news. Very well-deserved, no question about that.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

So many people didnt give Lawson a rating as not enough starts to tell, but did give Ricciardo a rating despite few starts.

I just looked at who was driving at the end of he season. I would rate Lawson mid pack, and I think he showed enough to deserve a seat in the future. Mind you, this time last year I was probably saying the same about De Vries!

[BTCC frog]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/12/12/...-sergio-perez/

Racefans had Perez 20th, above only Sargeant and De Vries.

I think it is harsh that he is below Zhou, Magnussen and Stroll but still think he should be a long way from the top ten.

[Skam85]

Perez still won a couple of races on merit, 10-13th is where he probably ranks.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

https://www.racefans.net/2023/12/12/...-sergio-perez/

Racefans had Perez 20th, above only Sargeant and De Vries.

I think it is harsh that he is below Zhou, Magnussen and Stroll but still think he should be a long way from the top ten.

Racefans may have him 20th but Perez was 2nd in the championship on merit, ie, he had scored more points than anyone other driver than Verstappen whom they would have rated amongst the best ever!


Even if the RB19 was superior it was not as far ahead of the opposition on lap times as the Merecedes cars were in some of the years 2016-20.

So the RB19 is a good car but not the most dominant car in any given year.
If you argue that it was the most dominant car in terms of overall lap speed then you depreciate Max's performance as a driver.

The reality is, a great car, with an outstanding driver who performed brilliantly and consistently over the season.
Perez didn't perform as well as Max but he did score 285 points.
If he is clearly the number two driver in a car that should have been second in every event as some people argue, then he should be measured against that possible score.
22 2nds in GP's, 6 seconds in Sprints, a total of 438. He scored 285, or 65% of his possible maximum.
Compare that with Hamilton who could have finished third in every race and sprint, a total of 366. he scored 234, against third in every event, That is 63.9%, actually lower than Perez scored.
Look at Leclere and Alonso, who scored 206 points each. If we compare their scores with a third in every race, they are obviously lower than Hamilton, at 56.2% of the possible points.
If we measure them against a 4th in every event, a total of 294 maximum points. This basically insinuates that the Ferrari and Aston Martin were incapable of getting a driver to the podium, so it comes as no surprise that they would have scored 70% of the possible points, if their cars full potential was a best of fourth place in any event.

If you measured Perez against the same standard (294 possible points) he scored 96.9%, very nearly 97% of all the possible points if he had finished fourth in every event.

That is why opinions and people's emotive assumptions about driver performance are never very objective. Too many other influences make up an
opinion.
Albon made a very interesting point about Max's driving style when he was at Red Bull earlier in his career alongside Max.
He said Max likes a VERY pointy set up, one he found extremely difficult to adapt to.

So much so that every time you made a mistake or gave yourself a surprise it sapped your confidence, and as you lost confidence you went slower and slower because you couldn't have confidence to be able to push the car to its maximum potential.
We know that this is what happened with Perez. I alluded to it in an earlier post on the subject.
Driving is never as simple as it looks and at every level, from karts to F1, set up affects performance.
And if you struggle with the car set up (or the kart) you will never get the best out of it.
And the opinions about Perez?
Most of the ones ranking him outside the top ten are rubbish.
The opening three or four races of the season represent his real ability, like Azerbaijan in 2023, or Singapore in 2022.
How many of his critics could have done what he did on those days?
None of them.

[E.B]

Great post. Well presented.

[chillibowl]

indeed. well presented.

while i have him in my top 10, i can understand why many many others have him much lower...it was hard season, lots of missed Q3s, unforced errors including some overly optimistic passing attempts, and of course having to retire twice in one race is an ignominious accomplishment!

i want to say he had the most race positions gained over the course of the season which can be in and of itself a very double edged accolade...if he wasnt always staring so far out of position then of course he wouldn't have needed to make up so many spots right?

but ultimately he did make up all but one of those spots in the races and he did it in what i would assume most would consider to be the seat that experienced the most scrutiny out of any other seat on the grid this year.

that it didnt break him is a testament to his quality.

subjective reasons of course but that should imo count for something as well.

[S griffin]

Certainly he didn’t do as well as Barrichello did in the Schumi dominated years, but he still got two wins and finished 2nd in the title race, so I do think it’s a bit harsh to rank him outside the top 10

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Certainly he didn’t do as well as Barrichello did in the Schumi dominated years, but he still got two wins and finished 2nd in the title race, so I do think it’s a bit harsh to rank him outside the top 10

On the flip side, across the grid I think there were at least 10 drivers that had better overall seasons than Checo.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Skam85

On the flip side, across the grid I think there were at least 10 drivers that had better overall seasons than Checo.

Possibly. although you would have to attempt a ranking value to each make of car and then assess the driver performance.

Even if you were looking at overall performance or even judgeing them on their errors, you would still be hard pressed to find ten drivers who actually merited a higher value than Perez, despite his struggles and errors.
He won two GPs on merit, when only Sainz managed a win against Max on Max's worst day all year.

Max obviously.
Hamilton, with his equipment nowhere as good as the RB19, still had off days and the incident with Russell, just as Perez did in Mexico.
Russell, but too many mistakes over the year to rank significantly better.

Sainz, yes. Hi win in Singapore a standout, but not the only one. His last two weekends were less inspiring but still definitely a top ten year.
Leclerc in a similar situation. good but not as consistently good as I had expected.
Alonso yes. No question there in spite of the few rough weekends after the midyear break when they seemed to lose their way a bit.
Albon, definitely a top ten driver in a car significantly handicapped. Great job in difficult circumstances.

Norris, a definite top ten. Especially after Austria.
But Piastri, not better than Checo across the whole season, in spite of some great individual races. Maybe not all his fault in some cases but still finding his feet and looking for less variability. Silverstone and Qatar were highlights.
But the potential is enormous.

Gasly and Ocon, both had too much variability for me to rank their year higher than Perez as drivers in 2023.

Hulkenberg? I often wonder what Hulkenberg could have accomplished were he sitting in Perez' seat or in Lance's seat at AMR where he had previously been a reserve driver. But i still wouldn't rank his year as better than Perez on quality or effort.

Tsunoda I would place inside the ten on merit over his results and effort after the midterm break. Lawson did as well when they were head to head but too few races to put in the ten and Ricciardo?
Despite Mexico being his standout, it wasn't enough to better Perez regardless of the recovering hand injury and there were still some places where i expected him to trash Yuki, and he didn't trash him at all.
This is partly why I rate Yuki relatively highly, and I'm a DR fan....

Neither Bottas, Zhou, or anyone else really stood out as being better performer than Perez across the season, so I think he is comfortably inside my top ten.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Possibly. although you would have to attempt a ranking value to each make of car and then assess the driver performance.

Even if you were looking at overall performance or even judgeing them on their errors, you would still be hard pressed to find ten drivers who actually merited a higher value than Perez, despite his struggles and errors.
He won two GPs on merit, when only Sainz managed a win against Max on Max's worst day all year.

Max obviously.
Hamilton, with his equipment nowhere as good as the RB19, still had off days and the incident with Russell, just as Perez did in Mexico.
Russell, but too many mistakes over the year to rank significantly better.

Sainz, yes. Hi win in Singapore a standout, but not the only one. His last two weekends were less inspiring but still definitely a top ten year.
Leclerc in a similar situation. good but not as consistently good as I had expected.
Alonso yes. No question there in spite of the few rough weekends after the midyear break when they seemed to lose their way a bit.
Albon, definitely a top ten driver in a car significantly handicapped. Great job in difficult circumstances.

Norris, a definite top ten. Especially after Austria.
But Piastri, not better than Checo across the whole season, in spite of some great individual races. Maybe not all his fault in some cases but still finding his feet and looking for less variability. Silverstone and Qatar were highlights.
But the potential is enormous.

Gasly and Ocon, both had too much variability for me to rank their year higher than Perez as drivers in 2023.

Hulkenberg? I often wonder what Hulkenberg could have accomplished were he sitting in Perez' seat or in Lance's seat at AMR where he had previously been a reserve driver. But i still wouldn't rank his year as better than Perez on quality or effort.

Tsunoda I would place inside the ten on merit over his results and effort after the midterm break. Lawson did as well when they were head to head but too few races to put in the ten and Ricciardo?
Despite Mexico being his standout, it wasn't enough to better Perez regardless of the recovering hand injury and there were still some places where i expected him to trash Yuki, and he didn't trash him at all.
This is partly why I rate Yuki relatively highly, and I'm a DR fan....

Neither Bottas, Zhou, or anyone else really stood out as being better performer than Perez across the season, so I think he is comfortably inside my top ten.

Fair points and the beauty of a discussion forum.

For the record, I have the below nine comfortably ahead of Checo (no particular order):

Verstappen
Sainz
Leclerc
Hamilton
Alonso
Albon
Tsunoda
Norris
Piastri

Then there's a block of five drivers I think you can throw a blanket over for 10th:

Gasly
Ocon
Hulkenberg (based on his qualifying heroics this year)
Russell
Perez

[Aysedasi]

I think there's an inevitability that Checo will come out looking sub-par as the comparison with his utterly dominant team mate in the best (and the same) car will always paint him in a poor light. I think that - unlike his team mate who was supremely confident throughout the season - Checo let his poorer performances get to him and he seemed at times incapable of breaking out of that mindset which led to overdriving and mistakes. Skam's ranking is pretty much the same as mine would be although I would put Checo ahead of Oscar (his day will surely come). I suspect though that there are drivers who would have made more of what Checo had at his disposal.

[wolfhound]

For what its worth here are Autosport's top 10


1 Verstappen
2 Norris
3 Alonso
4 Hamilton
5 Albon
6 Leclerc
7 Sainz
8 Russell
9 Piastri
10 Hulkenberg


No Perez
He lost out because his times per weekend were much slower than Verstappen's



https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ra...2023/10557654/
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/th...ance/10557109/



https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/th...ings/10559058/

[Born Racer]

Merry Christmas, Ten Tenthers.

Must get round to doing some driver rankings some time too.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Merry Christmas, Ten Tenthers.

Must get round to doing some driver rankings some time too.

I guess Max will be in first….

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Merry Christmas, Ten Tenthers.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and hope everyone is with the ones they love!

[Richard C]

Merry Christmas! I have to use this as well >> Only day of the year it is appropriate!

Richard

[chunterer]

I always base these things on 'what they did with what they had'?

On that basis not much dispute about Max being number one.

Most people have put Norris 2nd.. I don't think he warrants that accordimg to my criteria. Too many mistakes and at least one probably cost him that elusive first victory.

Alonso is a clear 2nd.
3. Hamilton
4. Norris
5. Piastri
6. Leclerc
7. Sainz
8. Russell
9. Albon
10.Lawson