[Multi 21] Ricciardo vs Vettel 2014

[321Go]

Vettel told by RBR to stop complaining and 'raise his game'.

Helmet Marko: "He is four-time world champion and if he can't sort out the car the easiest thing is the driver. He has to raise his game."

"Sebastian was complaining about having such a bad car, so there was a different approach, and on top of it Sebastian wants everything absolutely right."

[JeremySmith]

Fair enough...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Vettel told by RBR to stop complaining and 'raise his game'.

Helmet Marko: "He is four-time world champion and if he can't sort out the car the easiest thing is the driver. He has to raise his game."

"Sebastian was complaining about having such a bad car, so there was a different approach, and on top of it Sebastian wants everything absolutely right."

what must he wrench the thing too now?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Vettel told by RBR to stop complaining and 'raise his game'.

Helmet Marko: "He is four-time world champion and if he can't sort out the car the easiest thing is the driver. He has to raise his game."

"Sebastian was complaining about having such a bad car, so there was a different approach, and on top of it Sebastian wants everything absolutely right."

Soap box opera.

[321Go]

I guess this now means Ricciardo has done what Vettel hasn't managed to do.
Win in a not so perfect car.



Seems as though Vettel has enjoyed tailor-made cars that suited his driving style since 2010, which all had a very stable rear. This year they don't. Along comes the new kid, and with very limited real world testing, has probably proven right what most of the F1 drivers have been saying for a number of years now.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by 321Go

I guess this now means Ricciardo has done what Vettel hasn't managed to do.
Win in a not so perfect car.



Seems as though Vettel has enjoyed tailor-made cars that suited his driving style since 2010, which all had a very stable rear. This year they don't. Along comes the new kid, and with very limited real world testing, has probably proven right what most of the F1 drivers have been saying for a number of years now.

What have 'most of the F1 drivers' been saying ? It wouldn't happen to be related to why they didn't get a look in for the WDC for 4 years running, would it

[chunterer]

Could they have been saying he was undisputed no 1, receiving preferential treatment in a superior car?

We've heard that before!

[FAS33]

Daniel Ricciardo is F1's fastest driver of all time, just deal with it guys.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Daniel Ricciardo is F1's fastest driver of all time, just deal with it guys.

Indeed !

[Mekola]

Some insiders argue Dr Marko is punishing Vettel for a possible move to Ferrari.
Then, Ricciardo is now the privileged driver, in the current situation.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Indeed !

glad I'm not the only one that thinks that

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Mekola

Some insiders argue Dr Marko is punishing Vettel for a possible move to Ferrari.

Ya I think I mentioned that somewhere earlier in the thread. RBR are in existence purely and simply to punish Formula One drivers.

[Adam43]

It seems so, there are so many clever people suggesting this.

[Paradise City]

Red Bull aren't sabotaging Vettel which would be wildly self destructive and counter intuitive but I wouldn't be too surprised if some of the flak he's getting now from within the team is a little more pronounced due to some of the team defying antics he's got up to in previous years.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Seems as though Vettel has enjoyed tailor-made cars that suited his driving style since 2010, which all had a very stable rear.

Of course the cars were tailor made for Vettel, Schumacher had the same done for him at Ferrari. I think it was Berger who said that MS had his cars set up to be very pointy at the front and others could not drive them to their limit due to it. I always wondered if it was this issue that held him back from achieving more with MB, the cars not being tailor made to suit his style but more of a compromise for both drivers.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Casper

Of course the cars were tailor made for Vettel, Schumacher had the same done for him at Ferrari. I think it was Berger who said that MS had his cars set up to be very pointy at the front and others could not drive them to their limit due to it. I always wondered if it was this issue that held him back from achieving more with MB, the cars not being tailor made to suit his style but more of a compromise for both drivers.

I think it is a pretty miserable situation when the formula sets the axle weights so the drivers and engineers can't build the cars they want!

The Merc that Schumacher had in his first year, apparently had terminal understeer due to its design that just could not be changed. Another case of run what you brung!

Still all this said it is very interesting to see how much drivers struggle with cars that don't suit their style, I think we are seeing this with Vettel and Ricciardo at the moment.

[321Go]

So if Vettel is now struggling in a car that isn't tailor made for him and/or doesn't suit his driving style, then it seems as though his one and only win in '08 Monza was indeed luck/fluke. I mean.. the '08 STR wasn't tailor made for Vettel to suit his style.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 321Go

So if Vettel is now struggling in a car that isn't tailor made for him and/or doesn't suit his driving style, then it seems as though his one and only win in '08 Monza was indeed luck/fluke. I mean.. the '08 STR wasn't tailor made for Vettel to suit his style.

Wasn't tailor made, but possibly suited anyway.

I just don't get how a slightly different car, oversteer / understeer affects drivers results so significantly.

It seems to lend credibility that a great deal of success in F1 is purely luck, if the car characteristics suit your style you'll do well, otherwise you'll probably struggle. There does not seem to be enough adjustability in the cars to suit individual styles.

Probably gives some credibility to how good Alonso is as he seems to be able to get on with pretty well anything.

[Rick]

A tenth or two to Dan most of the time today.
It wasn't much, but it was so tight from 5 to 15, this time it made a huge difference.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by wnut

There does not seem to be enough adjustability in the cars to suit individual styles.

Probably gives some credibility to how good Alonso is as he seems to be able to get on with pretty well anything.

Maybe that should read "there is not enough adjustability in certain drivers to suit different cars.
Nando of course seems to be a very adjustable driver.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Maybe that should read "there is not enough adjustability in certain drivers to suit different cars.
Nando of course seems to be a very adjustable driver.

I like this "adjustable drivers" so no arguments with you here.

But why are they so thrown by such apparently small variations?

Remember Peterson infuriating Chapman because whatever they did to the car Ronnie produced about the same lap time and was very vague about what was different?

[321Go]

Is the love affair between Marko and Vettel turning sour? First Marko tells Vettel to raise his game. And for Australian CH10 he bagged Vettel once more. And praised Ricciardo.

Helmut Marko: "Sebastian is a perfectionist; he needs to get the car really right and if it is not right he cannot make it like Daniel does."

"On the other hand they both get the same material. If the car is not to his liking, Daniel seems to be more a driver who can handle it."

[Tucky]

When it was vettel and Webber, there was obvious favouritism by Helmut to Vettel since it was Helmut and the RB junior team that got Vettel to F1. Now that RB have two red bull junior programme drivers, Vettel doesn't seem to have the same "golden boy" image since both Vettel and Ricciardo are red bull through and through, if you get my drift.

[chillibowl]

i suppose its all fair game as Seb enjoyed the benefits of Marko's tendency to jump on and off band wagons for the last several years.

or is this just a Red Bull trait/marketing. always hype up the new while taking a poo on the old...which again must be said is a fairly common trait for many sporting organizations.

[jedrinck]

I don't think there has been a change in the relationship between Marko and Vettel. Vettel does well, Marko praises him, he does not so well, Marko criticizes him. Seems quite reasonable. Of course, some Webber fans in previous seasons thought that was favouritism towards Vettel but it was probably justified much like it is now adequate to say that Ricciardo is making more of the situation than Vettel is.