2011 Australian F3

[Morris Dancer]

Not likely, mate. If you're not willing to back up your contradiction of my figures, why did you butt in in the first place?

It would be very useful to have a current team put its price out in the open for all to see - or is your reluctance because it's closer to $500K than $250K?

[peebee2]

.

[prepel]

MD

From as little as Aus$10,000 per round. Its not like the overseas budget, but if you want the **** factor, show me ya money morris dancer.

I believe it is a little dearer if you donot own the car and go for a lease option, i own mine but dont do the National series and i spend around $5000 per round.

To drive a F3 in australia is actually cheaper than a season in the Formula Ford. There is some new upcoming drivers from Formula Ford appearing this year, especially with Bathurst on the agenda. It will be great to see the young guns take the kink over 300 km/hr in a F3.

Terry best of luck this year, will catch up soon

Prepel

[Morris Dancer]

That's a red herring. When was the last time the F3 title was won by someone driving their own car? Anyone who's serious about winning the series pays a top team to provide a race-winning car.

Back to square 1: How much do you say it would cost to hire a race-winning car for the whole F3 series?

[thommybhoy21]

I think you'll find chris gilmour won the championship last season in his won car!

[gomick]

James Winslow won all 3 races at Adelaides Clipsal 500 - 11 cars entered...

2012 Standings

[Morris Dancer]

If the first F3 round at V8 Supercars' showcase race meeting can't attract a dozen cars, when will CAMS finally concede that this terminally ill series doesn't deserve - if it ever did - Australian Drivers' Championship status?

[chunterer]

Do you know, that might actually be more cars than the euro series/euro cup this year. So in a challenging climate there's hope yet!

[Morris Dancer]

Hoping won't save this perennially struggling series.

When will the F3 Pollyannas face reality, and admit that it was a mistake from the beginning?

As for "challenging climate", not all 'development' openwheeler series are experiencing a drop-off in numbers this year. USF2000 had 30+ starters (up from 14 last year) in the first two rounds, and Star Mazda (the USA's equivalent of F3) had 21 at its first round last weekend.

F3 has demonstrably failed here, so F2000 should be adopted as the most affordable and logical step up from FF1600. The current FF1600 teams should be pushing to have the change brought in for 2013.

You know it makes sense.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Hoping won't save this perennially struggling series.

When will the F3 Pollyannas face reality, and admit that it was a mistake from the beginning?

As for "challenging climate", not all 'development' openwheeler series are experiencing a drop-off in numbers this year. USF2000 had 30+ starters (up from 14 last year) in the first two rounds, and Star Mazda (the USA's equivalent of F3) had 21 at its first round last weekend.

F3 has demonstrably failed here, so F2000 should be adopted as the most affordable and logical step up from FF1600. The current FF1600 teams should be pushing to have the change brought in for 2013.

You know it makes sense.

Because, of course, introducing a new formula/car where the teams have to write-off their old chassis and purchase a brand new machine has really helped the open-wheel scene in recent years!

Comparing the US racing scene, where even with the economic down turn there is still a lot of money floating about, with UK/European/Australian economies won't give you a very reliable picture. The fact is, Australian F3 has similar grid sizes to both the Euro Series F3 and British F3. Considering the lack of money, that is pretty solid from Australian F3's perspective.

Yes, F3 is expensive, but Aus F3 is a darn sight cheaper than over here in Europe. It's providing an avenue for drivers who don't have massive budgets (Jordan Skinner; he raced over here in FF1600 very successfully) and that has to be commended.

If there isn't any money to go racing with, introducing American-style F2000 isn't really going to help.

You obviously have some sort of hidden agenda against Australian F3? Grids all over the world are falling, some are being axed, others are trying to see the storm out. If they all were axed then there would be no open-wheel motor racing. Or maybe that is what you want?

[thommybhoy21]

Yes too right, aus f3 is not a bad championship at all, what is your problem morris dancer, aus f3 is not.your problem, so why are you concerned?
As for the UK, formula Renault UK has been canned due to grid numbers. So fair play to Richard crail, Ian Richards and all else involved in keeping f3 Australia going!!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Hoping won't save this perennially struggling series.

When will the F3 Pollyannas face reality, and admit that it was a mistake from the beginning?

As for "challenging climate", not all 'development' openwheeler series are experiencing a drop-off in numbers this year. USF2000 had 30+ starters (up from 14 last year) in the first two rounds, and Star Mazda (the USA's equivalent of F3) had 21 at its first round last weekend.

F3 has demonstrably failed here, so F2000 should be adopted as the most affordable and logical step up from FF1600. The current FF1600 teams should be pushing to have the change brought in for 2013.

You know it makes sense.

I don't think it has failed. Realistically whatever the junior formula above Formula Ford, it's going to be a limited market.

F3 is a well recognized junior formula, despite recent competition in Europe from other series and getting time in these cars is not a bad idea if you have professional career aspirations.

I don't see that dumping it now and going to FF2000 is worthwhile, unless there is factory support on offer.

[prepel]

20 F3 cars entered in the NSW State Series at Eastern Creek this weekend.
All good in the state series

[thommybhoy21]

All the state series championships need to move into the national championship!

[alfacors]

F3 Australia just set the fastest official lap of Mount Panorama this afternoon.

2:05.5361

BTW, 10 FFords at the National Championship round in Tassie the other weekend....

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

Because, of course, introducing a new formula/car where the teams have to write-off their old chassis and purchase a brand new machine has really helped the open-wheel scene in recent years!

Comparing the US racing scene, where even with the economic down turn there is still a lot of money floating about, with UK/European/Australian economies won't give you a very reliable picture. The fact is, Australian F3 has similar grid sizes to both the Euro Series F3 and British F3. Considering the lack of money, that is pretty solid from Australian F3's perspective.

Yes, F3 is expensive, but Aus F3 is a darn sight cheaper than over here in Europe. It's providing an avenue for drivers who don't have massive budgets (Jordan Skinner; he raced over here in FF1600 very successfully) and that has to be commended.

If there isn't any money to go racing with, introducing American-style F2000 isn't really going to help.

You obviously have some sort of hidden agenda against Australian F3? Grids all over the world are falling, some are being axed, others are trying to see the storm out. If they all were axed then there would be no open-wheel motor racing. Or maybe that is what you want?

Bull, the reason the car counts are so good in Star Mazda are the fact that the costs have been controlled very well. For 150K US I could have two Star Mazdas with engines, all I would need is a mechanic for each and a trailer to haul them, plus entry fees. I bet you could do a whole season for 2 cars for 300-400K US. It would be even better if they could get rid of the Renesis, which is not at all reliable(from the mouth of a mechanic)


And F2000 would be good for any ladder outside of Europe. The championship series here(Not affiliated with IndyCar) is as diverse a series as there is in the world, and done rather cheaply. I'm not 100 percent sure if it's cheaper than Star Mazda, but the chassis are cheaper, and since it's a formula based class which the engineers can play around, it's a great stepoff point for a young engineer as well.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

For 150K US I could have two Star Mazdas with engines, all I would need is a mechanic for each and a trailer to haul them

You don't think you might need other staff or can these mechanics also engineer the cars, run the data systems, coach the drivers, manage the team, deal with drivers' parents and managers as well as arrange lunch?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Bull, the reason the car counts are so good in Star Mazda are the fact that the costs have been controlled very well. For 150K US I could have two Star Mazdas with engines, all I would need is a mechanic for each and a trailer to haul them, plus entry fees. I bet you could do a whole season for 2 cars for 300-400K US. It would be even better if they could get rid of the Renesis, which is not at all reliable(from the mouth of a mechanic)

And F2000 would be good for any ladder outside of Europe. The championship series here(Not affiliated with IndyCar) is as diverse a series as there is in the world, and done rather cheaply. I'm not 100 percent sure if it's cheaper than Star Mazda, but the chassis are cheaper, and since it's a formula based class which the engineers can play around, it's a great stepoff point for a young engineer as well.

Star Mazda's hold their value with cars and spares. The original car is still being run in club motorsport all over the USA and it dates from the 1980's. And that is pretty good as a lot of these junior formula cars end up depreciating badly or end up hard to sell as you might not have a place to run them.

FF2000 is way cheaper unless you want to overdo it and have Formula 1 levels of service and hospitality. Also because it is a stable formula in the USA, the cars tend to hold some value.

There are other options out there, but Australia went the F3 route and it's not a bad choice.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

You don't think you might need other staff or can these mechanics also engineer the cars, run the data systems, coach the drivers, manage the team, deal with drivers' parents and managers as well as arrange lunch?

I was in the paddock last week, and not even Juncos, Andretti, or Pelfrey had more than 7 guys that I could see. And as far as dealing with lunch, they could probably grab someone out of the paddock and ask them politely to do it for free and quite a few would jump at it. I would be at the very front of that line.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Star Mazda's hold their value with cars and spares. The original car is still being run in club motorsport all over the USA and it dates from the 1980's. And that is pretty good as a lot of these junior formula cars end up depreciating badly or end up hard to sell as you might not have a place to run them.

FF2000 is way cheaper unless you want to overdo it and have Formula 1 levels of service and hospitality. Also because it is a stable formula in the USA, the cars tend to hold some value.

There are other options out there, but Australia went the F3 route and it's not a bad choice.

I'm hoping to be able to get one of my own in the next few years, but that rotary frankly scares the **** out of me and talking to a mechanic last week about the sealed Star Mazda spec Renesis didn't help quell those fears. Hopefully they get to the point where someone can mate the 1.5L MZR engine from the new MS2 in it.

[alfacors]

New lap record for Bathurst - Chris Gilmour in the Formula 3 Australia Drivers Championship - 2:04.6187!

[formerf1champ]

FWIW, I disagree with the class continuing. It's a nothing class and doesn't fit anywhere in Australian motorsport. In some ways, it's a single seater Carrera Cup. The class doesn't do anything, it certainly doesn't prepare an up and comer to progress to F1/IRL or even GP2 and V8 Supercars. It's a National championship in it's own right. That being the case, there are better options for a winged/slicks single seater class in Australia.

From what I know about ff2000 (not a lot), I get the impression that it's not a class that is a committed feeder category. It can be a catergory that can attract a very good amateur who's over 30yo and not look weird, like how a over 30yo ff1600 competitor would look out of place in the Aus series (or most national fford series). For that reason alone, I think it'd be a better opton than F3.

A replacement to F3 would (should) be able attract all types of competitiors, competing in National level, and be a class for all of the really good amateurs to aspire to, which F3 has no chance of. It doesn't have to actually be ff2000, even the bigger PalmerAudi, European F2 type class would be good. I know F2/PalmerAudi is meant to be some kind of less expensive F1 feeder series, but as long as it's not introduced here under that premise, I think it'd be a good series and better than F3.

It doesn't surprise me there are big F3 numbers in state competition. Once those type of cars have served their purpose, they belong to weathly people who couldn't care less about getting to F1 can afford to run them on their own. Those people don't need to be competing in an Australian championship.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by thommybhoy21

All the state series championships need to move into the national championship!

They cant.. many of the cars in the state series' are 2003-spec and prior, and are therefore not eligible for AF3.

[thommybhoy21]

I think you'll find the national series would let in cars from 1999 upwards.

[alfacors]

Bathurst was eligible for cars 02-spec and later only as they have the mandatory wheel tethers. You could enter a 99/01 but you'd not have much chance of being competitive. The State series is great for older cars and the guys who enjoy their openwheelers but aren't interested in competing for a National title.