Stewart: Schumi will kill himself

av8rirl · 7 Apr 2006, 11:44 (Ref:1573019)

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=114373

This is an interesting article. IMO watching MS this year is almost a little like watching my hero Ayrton Senna at the start of 1994. Is MS pushing too hard? Is he starting to get a little ragged causing more of track excursions? Is it time for him to hang up his lid and be thankful for such a good stint in F1?

I know this thread may be similar to others.... but is Jackie Stewart right?

N I Tram · 7 Apr 2006, 11:52 (Ref:1573026)

I don't think so. Michael's crash this weekend wasn't even the biggest or 2nd biggest a Ferrari had that weekend. Michael's always had the odd off-road moment, but they've always previously been in practice sessions. The extra run-off areas at new tracks make it harder to hurt yourself these days as well. Jackie has to realise that safety has moved on.

He could be right about one thing though. I don't think Michael is quite the driver he once was. In his mind, his reactions are as good as they were, but he probably only has 98% or 99% of the sharpness he once had, and that does make you prone to overdoing it.

Super Hans · 7 Apr 2006, 11:52 (Ref:1573027)

Nearly all contemporary Grand Prix racers would be dead by now if they raced in the conditions Stewart faced in his era.

As it is, modern safety standards mean that today's drivers can take more risks, as a high-speed excursion is more likely to lead to a minor trip into the gravel / tyre wall than a fatal impact with a tree, for instance.

**Adam43** · 7 Apr 2006, 11:55 (Ref:1573030)

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: In that article JYS does not say Stewart will kill himself. He is saying that in his day that would have been more serious. He then takes about "it biting you" and says "it bit" Michael. Hence he is saying that he pushed too hard and got bitten. Not killed. At no point does JYS say Michael will get killed. This is important.

The Mirror, in search of a dramatic story, has probably missed the crux of what JYS was saying. Which is still interesting. He is making the point that back in his day you couldn't afford to push as much, because you might not get away with a big accident.

Back to Senna, not wishing to go over old ground. He made a mistake in Brazil. He was taken out in Aida and it is unknown to a degree of uncertainty what happened in Imola.

Now Michael. He is pushing hard. He has done so before and made mistake, but three races into the season I think it is too early to say. If at the next race he pushes hard and it comes off everyone will be saying that he is still the best. In some ways you are only as good as your last race, but to ignore the other races is going too far.

Michael keep pushing.

davyboy · 7 Apr 2006, 13:36 (Ref:1573110)

I'm fairly certain Michael Schumacher's not deteriorated as a driver to the extent his on-track performances bear out. He didn't have a good car under him last year... and this year's no different. However these things are happening at a point in his life where his driving would naturally come under question. Michael's also never had to deal with a new guard, achieving superior results to his, and I'm sure its having a pyschological effect. Its possible that this could force him to 'overdrive', take risks and make mistakes. In JYS' day that was the final signal to exit stage left before the grim reaper got you. Today its a lot more forgiving, but Michael would do well to taken a hard look at his situation and judge whether he's better off leaving with a strong legacy intact... or fading away in cars that aren't worthy of his talents.

Kirk · 7 Apr 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1573136)

Well said Adam. Headlines are often of the authors creativity.

I would love to hear Villeneuve's thoughts on this subject. He has stated more than once that he would likely be dead if was driving back in the Stewart days. By its very nature, modern F1 allows the drivers much more forgiveness than a generation ago. And I like the fact that MS is unwilling to drive any car below its potential and even at 37, he refuses to go through the motions if his car is not 100 percent to his liking.

Knowlesy · 7 Apr 2006, 15:50 (Ref:1573239)

This was on a website a few days ago.

I considered posting it as a thread, but then realised JYS had said nothing remotely resembling the headline!

BootsOntheSide · 7 Apr 2006, 16:25 (Ref:1573267)

Freedom of expression and a free press are not always the same thing - in this country, you are free to say what you like, but don't be surprised if millions of people then think you've said something completely different.

avsfan733 · 7 Apr 2006, 16:40 (Ref:1573276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

This was on a website a few days ago.

I considered posting it as a thread, but then realised JYS had said nothing remotely resembling the headline!

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that. [/OT]

JYS is wrong but sorta right. AS was said most drivers today would not have survived in the 50's. But in all fairness most drivers in the 50's didn't survive in the 50's. Many more died or retired due to injury than retired from other concerns. The culture is different to. Now your playing with .01 of a lap or less so you must find the limit. you can't find the limit unless you actually step over it some of the time.

I must say that I am sure MS is aware of the risk. In the last few years, Both Schumacher brothers have suferred firghtening crashes that caused two of the very few serious injuries we have nowadays

Kirk · 7 Apr 2006, 17:10 (Ref:1573299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by avsfan733

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that. [/OT]

you can't find the limit unless you actually step over it some of the time.

Exactly. MS has his share of spins in practice, trying to find that limit ... but rarely in races.

Mr V · 7 Apr 2006, 21:06 (Ref:1573454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

This was on a website a few days ago.

I considered posting it as a thread, but then realised JYS had said nothing remotely resembling the headline!

Quote:

Originally Posted by avsfan733

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that. [/OT]

That makes 3 of us then. I read this yesterday in the newspaper whilst waiting for my bacon and onion sandwich

The headline doesn't reflect what Jackie said so i didn't bother.

I'd just like to point out that i'm not criticizing av8rirl for starting the thread though

Knowlesy · 7 Apr 2006, 21:45 (Ref:1573469)

Absolutely not.

av8rirl · 7 Apr 2006, 21:49 (Ref:1573471)

OK I will agree that what JYS said does not merit the title on headline. It is my own personal opinion that MS has now reached a stage where he is having to overdrive the car either because the young guns are faster or the cars are not as good as his championship winning cars.

However, I feel that his start to this season looks something similar to Senna's start to 1994. I really am not a huge MS fan but I wouldn't like to see a similar result to Imola 94. MS is so committed to getting the best out of the car and pushing it to the limit BUT all it takes is just one bad time beyond the cars limit could have catastrophic consequences.

Safety has come on in leaps and bounds but remember Ralfs crash in Melbourne (??) a few years ago (flying thru the air along the barrier), Ralfs crash at Indy, the fiasco of Brazil a few years ago (Webber and Alonso I think)... all it takes is some freak accident to leave us without a driver!!!

In 94, I think everyone expected Senna to walk away from his crash!!! Again just a freak of nature that he was killed by the wishbone!!

Mr V · 7 Apr 2006, 21:57 (Ref:1573480)

I see where your coming from av8rirl.

I do have this sneaking suspiscion in the back of my mind that we ,as a collective, (including fans, teams and drivers) think that it can't happen again, but i fear it will.

I sincerely hope i'm wrong. And i don't think that it will necessarily be Michael, though i do also agree, that he seems to be overdriving the car more than he should at times, but i fear that it will happen to someone.

That said, my other fear is that eventually, the powers that be (i.e the FIA) will dumb the sport down too much in their (admiral) quest for safety.

Knowlesy · 7 Apr 2006, 22:00 (Ref:1573483)

I think the risk is as minimal as can be, to be fair.

He'll be right and will retire with all limbs intact, I'm quite sure.

**Adam43** · 7 Apr 2006, 22:56 (Ref:1573524)

Quote:

Originally Posted by av8rirl

Safety has come on in leaps and bounds but remember Ralfs crash in Melbourne (??) a few years ago (flying thru the air along the barrier), Ralfs crash at Indy, the fiasco of Brazil a few years ago (Webber and Alonso I think)... all it takes is some freak accident to leave us without a driver!!!

You make a good point, but your examples only prove that safety has improved because they all got away with it!

BootsOntheSide · 8 Apr 2006, 08:54 (Ref:1573667)

By my reckoning there have only been 4 crashes causing a driver to miss a race more than a day later since the start of 1995 - Michael Silverstone 1999, Burti Spa 2001, Ralf Indy 2004 and Katayama Estoril 1995. Add to that Mika's near-fatal Adelaide crash at the end of 1995, but it's still a far safer sport than it was even 10 years ago - the 8 years without a fatality still included Streiff and Donnelly being permenantly injured.

Schummy · 9 Apr 2006, 09:14 (Ref:1574379)

Safety has improved after 1994 but some of the accidents we have had in the last years were potentially very dangerous. It doesn't take a lot to kill a driver, just some freak circunstances. Law of big numbers can be cruel, if big accidents happens from time to time, there is a real probability something very bad happens.

Helmet's visor is frail, a little piece at 160mph can be nasty. Driver's neck is un protected and something *can* hit there. Berger was close to disaster when a onboard camera fell of a car and nearly hit his helmet at 200mph in Hockenheim.

A somersault can make a contact between helmet and a hard object (for instance, the freak lethal accident in the last lap of the last race of the old F3000 series, or the terrifying Moore's accident).

The ultimate hard object to crash with is another car. A T-bone crash at 200 mph is terrible (Zanardi, Dana). Some years ago Coulthard and Villeneuve were very near of a head on crash at about 180mph in Magny-Cours main straight.

Deceleration in great amount kills. It doesn't take a great speed, but a very short stopping distance to make it. At 120mph someone can be killed against hard walls in Monte if a freak angle of contact happens. Freak collisions just happens, remember some years ago a single seater driver got killed when he crashed into the starting lights above the track!

I remember well the sense of safety we had in 1994. Nothing fatal could happen in F1, it was a thing of the past. Then the law of big numbers crushed us with horrible strength in Imola.

Now I feel the same safeness, but, you know what, now I know something very wrong *could* happen eventually in any GP.

mooneyda · 9 Apr 2006, 12:47 (Ref:1574543)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

You make a good point, but your examples only prove that safety has improved because they all got away with it!

True!

But this is only "improved" and "got away with it"!

Unfortunately, at some stage somebody won't get away with it!
Things will undoubtedly always improve (albeit slowly at this stage, due to the progression of safety in the industry). However, there is always something flawed when improvement is needed. I'm not an expert in F1 safety and its possible flaws, but i do believe that with the nature of the sport (on the limits, on the edge) we will unfortunately have another day like Imola again

I agree that every possible step has been taken to prevent another Imola, and the FIA and manufacturers, suppliers, teams, etc.. should be applauded for this.

I also think, if your an F1 driver you accept the "risks" everytime you step into that car! (that can go for most forms of motorsports - especially bikes)

JeremySmith · 9 Apr 2006, 15:39 (Ref:1574618)

Racing can never be risk free it's not possible, it is safer these days, but not safe..

Aguri_Poo_Suki · 9 Apr 2006, 20:24 (Ref:1574854)

Honestly guys I dont know why we discuss these things that F1 people say sometimes.Why would Schumacher kill himself mr stewart?? tell me! the idea of schumacher commiting suicide is insane he's rich has a good family and is driving for ferrari yet stewart is hell bent on spreading rumours of drivers commiting suicide!! crazy just absolutley crazy is all i can say

Knowlesy · 9 Apr 2006, 20:38 (Ref:1574875)

*yawn*

Schummy · 9 Apr 2006, 21:02 (Ref:1574909)

BSchneiderFan · 9 Apr 2006, 21:55 (Ref:1574949)

I don't buy this 'Schumacher isn't the driver he was' routine. The bottom line is that there is no appreciable physical deterioration in a racing diver's abilities until much older than the late 30s - Autosport had an interesting article about this a few years ago - and so it's all down to psychology. There is an argument that an older driver, perhaps with considerable achievement behind him, might push less hard than an up-and-coming star - Niki Lauda and Alain Prost in the twilights of their careers are good examples of this. But I think you'll hunt long and hard - and largely unsuccessfully - to find someone who will say that Schumacher has lost motivation or the desire to win. He certainly didn't seem to be lacking in motivation in Bahrain, or in Melbourne. Nor, frankly, do I think that he's overdriving - the lapse in Australia was just that, a lapse; he was very far from the only driver to make a mistake that weekend. Did Massa screw up because he was pushing too hard to compensate for waning skills? Of course not. He made a mistake, as did Schuey. The difference is that they're rarer in Schuey's case. Let's wait until the end of the season and see how the points stack up before we write the oldest man on the grid off, shall we?

davyboy · 10 Apr 2006, 10:30 (Ref:1575415)

You're right to say that its unlikely Schumacher's deteriorated as a driver. However F1 society/culture dictates that most drivers call it a day around his age, so it would not be untrue to say that the vultures are already circling. Add that with what's going on within Schumacher's own head regarding this situation and a 2006 Ferrari, which is relatively poor [by recent Ferrari standards], and you have unpleasant set of circumstances for Schumacher to contend with.

On the other hand, had the 2006 Ferrari been the stormer the 2004 one was, Schumacher would probably have won the first 3 races of the year and people would be begging him to give up to give the others a chance, but they wouldn't be questioning his skill or ability as they are now.

The outcome of this will be clear at the end of this year when, if things continue as they are, Schumacher will possibly consider retiring.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
[FIA GT] why did the FIA kill the GT1 class in FIA GT?	CVT	Sportscar & GT Racing	42	16 Nov 2003 01:48