LMS 2011 Discussion

[The Badger]

Another Lola is whats getting at me . There is just too many of them , turning into a one make series almost . Delighted about another proto , just wish it wasnt another Lola .

As we see ..... Lola cant take the fight to Audi or Peugeot , so I would like to see another proto that can . Its basically a cheap mass produced chassis for the rest of the field ..... and its results dont say anything spectacular either , or do they ? Im talkin about P1 & not P2 .

When did a Lola last win a race against decent opposition ? Who was that then ?

Panoz at least beat the Audi steam roller a couple of times .

[rich07]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Disapointed its not the rumoured Ferrari power we had been hoping for , and gutted its another Lola too !!!

Mega disappointed about no Ferrari power too. Im not that bothered that its another Lola, its good to have another proto on the grid. Well it maybe another Lola but its in good hands so should do well if Compnac doesnt slow Russo down too much....

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Disapointed its not the rumoured Ferrari power we had been hoping for , and gutted its another Lola too !!!

And to think that some people were thinking around the time of Le Mans this year that LMP2 next year would be the domain of Oreca FLM cars...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by The Badger

When did a Lola last win a race against decent opposition ? Who was that then ?

Panoz at least beat the Audi steam roller a couple of times .

In the ALMS this past season Drayson beat Highcroft, Dyson, and Cytosport. Also this past season, Dyson won a race against the same people. So Lola's can win against decent competition.

[Captain Spyro]

Originally Posted by joeb

In the ALMS this past season Drayson beat Highcroft, Dyson, and Cytosport. Also this past season, Dyson won a race against the same people. So Lola's can win against decent competition.

Don't forget RML winning at the Algarve in the LMS P2 class AND winning the P2 class championship to boot.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by joeb

In the ALMS this past season Drayson beat Highcroft, Dyson, and Cytosport. Also this past season, Dyson won a race against the same people. So Lola's can win against decent competition.

All privateer teams , and I didnt say that a Lola couldnt win against stiff competition . I said that a Lola cant win against an Audi or a Pug .

Now look at the brilliant job Rebellion did this year , and Drayson had more issues that not , maybe the same with Dyson .

The last time a Lola did some decent winning was probably DAMS with the B98 Judd GV4 .

I not having a go at Lola , just mentioning that the car is a mass produced item , built to a price and cant fight against a works supported outfit , or a team running currant works car , unless there is an issue with it . And my point is correct .

When has a Lola beaten a factory car fair and square ?

I feel that if you want to win , you will need more than a Lola Judd ..... which seems to be sprouting up like mad lately .

Im very interested in seeing what that P1 Oreca can do with Hope Polevision , just not sure about the engine , but I feel that the car is one of the best out there .

[JAG]

When has a privateer beaten a factory team full stop?

The more cars Lola sell the more can be reinvested into the cars development, the dieel advatange also put a huge spanner in the works in terms of judging the Lola chassis.

I agree on the engine front however and with Hope PoleVision going with Lehmann and Rebellion Toyota teams are shaking things up. Thats not to put Judd down as it seems their new BMW based P2 engine is quite popular.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by JAG

When has a privateer beaten a factory team full stop?

The more cars Lola sell the more can be reinvested into the cars development, the dieel advatange also put a huge spanner in the works in terms of judging the Lola chassis.

I agree on the engine front however and with Hope PoleVision going with Lehmann and Rebellion Toyota teams are shaking things up. Thats not to put Judd down as it seems their new BMW based P2 engine is quite popular.

1997 .
Henri also got very close in 2005 and 2006!

It's not impossible at all. The problem lies in that there is 2 manufactures to beat, both often with 3 cars.
A big part of Endurance racing is reliability, and this is often where the "mass produced" cars will be victorious over the manufactures, except when there are more than 2-3 (as the likelihood of failure in more than 3 works cars is slim)

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I said that a Lola cant win against an Audi or a Pug .

And what can then Mr Lola's are pants?

Lola's are a fantastic cost effective and good looking package, and the more the better IMO.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by JAG

When has a privateer beaten a factory team full stop?

The more cars Lola sell the more can be reinvested into the cars development, the dieel advatange also put a huge spanner in the works in terms of judging the Lola chassis.

I agree on the engine front however and with Hope PoleVision going with Lehmann and Rebellion Toyota teams are shaking things up. Thats not to put Judd down as it seems their new BMW based P2 engine is quite popular.

Joest beat the factory .....

For such a great chassis , Rebellion really had a dream year ! Unfortunatly , most manufacturers dont sell their currant chassis , so its hard to tell who could do that now .

Lola sold an awful lot of cars to fund this exceptional chassis they have now , didnt they ?

Ok , I'll give you that about the diesel formula .

[cmk]

Rebellion's problems this year didn't really have to do with the chassis. Even if we ignore their exploits with beating the Audis in the ALMS with Dyson and the MG 675 car, Lolas have still been no worse than Pescarolo, Courage or Zytek at harrying the big factory guns. The Lola-Astons have consistently headed the petrol brigade over the last 3 years, and the Drayson Lola has definitely looked quite pacy this year. Ultimately, nobody has seriously challenged the factory diesels, so it's hardly a particular knock against Lola.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

And what can then Mr Lola's are pants?

Lola's are a fantastic cost effective and good looking package, and the more the better IMO.

I didnt say they are pants . Tell Lord Drayson and Rebellion about how great and reliable his car is . Chaiisis is good , engine is good ..... the issue is mating all the stuff together . Look at the RS Spyder ..... still works fine cuz its a package turn key effort .

Issue is ..... that a Lola is a chassis , where an Audi , Porsche and Pug are a complete and tested package . The Lola teams have to work all the tech stuff out by themselves , with some support from Lola .

I just dont understand all the hype about another Lola ..... Im much more excited about that Oreca P1 , Riley P2 and several other projects that are on the way .

And ..... the P1 & P2 cars look the same ..... and thats a shame .

[cmk]

All of those other cars you are excited about are just chassis with various engines bodged in, too. Ultimately nobody but road car manufacturers are doing chassis plus engine as a bespoke and integrated package, and that makes some sense. It takes a very large organization to take care of monocoque construction and engine building, not to mention all the ancillaries, and most of the manufacturers contract that stuff out to specialized companies like Lola anyway.

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I just dont understand all the hype about another Lola ..... Im much more excited about that Oreca P1 , Riley P2 and several other projects that are on the way .

And ..... the P1 & P2 cars look the same ..... and thats a shame .

Originally Posted by cmk

All of those other cars you are excited about are just chassis with various engines bodged in, too.

Would the Oreca not have been designed with a Peugeot engine in mind?
De Chaunac was open (on several occasions) about the likelihood of the car sporting a Peugeot powerplant.

Considering WR will run Peugeot engines (albeit produced by WR, with Peugeot components) next year, wouldn't it stand to reason that there is an increased likelihood of said car being designed to suit said engine?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I didnt say they are pants . Tell Lord Drayson and Rebellion about how great and reliable his car is . Chaiisis is good , engine is good ..... the issue is mating all the stuff together.

Issue is ..... that a Lola is a chassis , where an Audi , Porsche and Pug are a complete and tested package . The Lola teams have to work all the tech stuff out by themselves , with some support from Lola .

I suspect, and I may be wrong, that if you were to ask Bart Hayden what was the weakest link in the 2010 Lola Rebellion package, he would tell you it was the Lola gearbox. With less power in 2011, this will (hopefully) no longer be an issue.

Just realised the thread title.....back on topic!

[andrewn]

I believe that you are correct Bentley - Overheard an interesting 'chat' at Silverstone that confirmed that exact point regards the 'box simply not being able to handle the power being thrust through it...

Not sure who manufactures those boxes (Lola / Recardo / Other?) but, like you, I hope and expect it'll be less of an issue next year with the reduced bhp.

All things considered I think the Lola is a decent enough overall package, just not up there with the works Pugs / Audi and I guess that's to be expected really as $'s buys success to a large degree.

[dj4monie]

The difference between the Aston Lolas and everybody else is this -

Aston Martin is still basically a B, Triple A, College Football, Jr Hockey team compared to the cubic dollars other have spent. In 2009 they were much closer to the diesel cars than this year. With no grand increase in budget Aston opted to just tweak the cars with the money they had.

I'm not sure how competitive these new 3.4L V8 bespoke roadsters will be, but I'm fairly sure they'll be at Sebring just to see how they stack up.

Even with only 3.7L and Audi's rumored to be using a 3.7L V6, it will still be diesel and product MASSIVE torque compared to the N/A cars like the Aston. What they are hoping is that having less weight and making up the speed in the corners will make up for the 1-3 mph they'll be loosing to the factory cars on the straights. It should do well at places like Sebring where downforce is more important than trimming the car out for top speed.

The real test will come at Spa.

For Rebellion and Drayson, I said it before and I'll say it again, they need SERIOUS power. Rebellion with have TRD-JPN Power, not sure what Drayson will run, but I assume one of the confirmed LMP1 power plants which none have been confirmed really beyond the Rebellion/Toyota tie-up and obvious engines that meet the current regulations like the HPD 3.4L V8 that has been used in both the LMP1 and LMP2 versions of the Acura.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by cmk

All of those other cars you are excited about are just chassis with various engines bodged in, too.

The Oreca was a class car last year , and also this year . I never saw a Lola do what that Oreca did , expect for the AMR examples run by a semi-works team ..... who also happen to be probably one of the best sportscar teams in the complete series .

Ok , we havent seen the Riley yet .

[TF110]

It'll be Audi and Peugeot again, until someone else comes in like Toyota with a factory LMP car, no one will touch them, diesel is too much for the petrol cars of now. Only Aston will be close, but I doubt it'll be any closer than last year. They dont want to put up the budget to run with Audi and Peugeot but want the rules to favor their car. That's asking a lot, and no matter what they do until someone comes around and has serious finances it'll just be the usual players in LMP1.

[Victor_RO]

According to Autosport, Jetalliance Racing is slated to run one or two GTE Lotus Evoras during next year's LMS season; also, they are also reporting that ART are looking at a sportscar programme in LMP2 from 2012 onwards.

[JAG]

It isn't clear if ART will be running a Lotus P2 but it does seem logical given the ties already in place.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88377

[KA]

Originally Posted by JAG

It isn't clear if ART will be running a Lotus P2 but it does seem logical given the ties already in place.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88377

Like you say, it sounds like a logical conclusion. When the LMP2 was announced in Autosport, Berro said that they planned to have a factory development team appearing at Le Mans and selected other races, while any full-season championship bids would be left to customers.

Given ART's links to Lotus, I reckon they'd be high on the list of candidates to run that factory team...

[helgi]

Any chances Alex Premat returning to ART?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

According to Autosport, Jetalliance Racing is slated to run one or two GTE Lotus Evoras during next year's LMS season

is that 2011? If so, a bit surprised, I didnt expect the car so soon, but great news, good to see Jetalliance back in something big.

[Graham Goodwin]

The Autosport piece actually says 2010!