Nigel Roebuck on Prost v. TGF

[Liz]

Murph, I remember seeing the overhead photos and I remember Senna saying that "those photographs are a lie." And I remember that back in those days photos customarily did not lie (before photoshop etc.), and that this was where the powers that be finally had enough of Senna and lit into him officially, forcing him at last to publically back down from both his slanderous remarks about Prost and Ballestre being in collusion due to their sharing a common nationality (these days they'd call that "racism" although French is not a race) and his assertions that their collusion had included faking the photographic record.

In my opinion, the reason he went so far as to make these wild assertions was the tremendous amount of slack that was given him before this, to make unfounded accusations and wild statements without let or hindrance.... but sooner or later everybody goes too far.

Later, of course, he admitted that it was all untrue, just as he finally admitted that he deliberately drove into Prost and rammed him off the track the next year in revenge, stealing the championship for himself.

Incidentally, regarding the favouritism Prost accused Honda of showing to Senna, in one of the annuals I have at home, Prost says that he later asked one of the Honda people who had been in charge at the time (after he had retired) if this was so, and the man admitted that indeed it was. Prost didn't issue a press release about it, but he said that it was good to know that he hadn't been imagining the whole thing as everyone had been telling him for years!

[BBKing]

Originally posted by Liz
Incidentally, regarding the favouritism Prost accused Honda of showing to Senna, in one of the annuals I have at home, Prost says that he later asked one of the Honda people who had been in charge at the time (after he had retired) if this was so, and the man admitted that indeed it was. Prost didn't issue a press release about it, but he said that it was good to know that he hadn't been imagining the whole thing as everyone had been telling him for years!

So we have to believe him because he is Prost and said so?

Why was Balestre out of F1?

How Senna forced Frank Williams to say publicly that Renault did not want Both Prost and Senna in 93?

Isn't Prost known for his ability to reach agreements behind closed doors? (when he was a driver, now that he is a owner he sucks even at that)

Why they red flaged the race in Monaco 84 exactly when Senna got ahead of Prost and not 10 laps earlier when the rain was even worse than at that moment? Prost and Balestre again. I am glad prost lost the champioship by 0.5 points that he should have gotten if he was finished the race in second place.

I got the video from inside Prost and Senna's car and from the chopper. It is evident to me that he turned in way before he should have. The difference is that he was not man enough to admit to it. Or there was not a Brazilian at the head of FIA that would have force him to do so .

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Murph
"He drove into Senna in 89 ......................"

as far as Prost driving into Senna.......others interpert history a little differently. (there's that damn critical analysis) Here is Nigel Roebuck from the Autosport 1989 Annual Review....

"Quite apart apart from anything else, he wanted to win at Suzuka, to BEAT Ayrton, become World Champion that way. He had promised an aggressive and uncompromising race that day, and gave it, beating Senna off the grid, and putting in one of the finest opening laps on record. If the gap were there, on lap 47, it was because that time around Prost thought Senna too far back realistically to stab for it

Umm,

Anybody notice a similarity here with Silverstone '95?

Murph, I believe you are right about Suzuka. IMHO the only way you can overtake is if you (correct me if I'm wrong) illegally cross into the pit lane entry before returning to the track on the inside of the chicane.

As with Silverstone '95 the driver of the following car was (shall we say) either desperate or more than likely "optimistic". A racing accident.

Unlike Suzuka '90 when the following driver so obviously failed to avoid contact.

Mr King. I have to say that "my rules" are the forum's. You've been conversing with people more qualified than me and if they haven't said anything then I shan't. However you might like to "pm" the perpetrator and suggest he/she doesn't repeat the joke.

BTW. You still strumming that 'Strat?

[downforce]

last couple of posts made nice reading...

Thot it was a Les Paul always?...

[Peter Mallett]

Sorry Mr King, I missed this post first thing this am.

Originally posted by BBKing


So we have to believe him because he is Prost and said so?

Why was Balestre out of F1?

How Senna forced Frank Williams to say publicly that Renault did not want Both Prost and Senna in 93?

We really don't have to believe anything.

Balestre was certainly a bit er esoteric? But I don't recall him being a friend to Prost. Was he out of F1 by then? Not sure.

Senna certainly didn't want Prost as a team mate and he'd made that publicly clear. Prost was only there to finish his career in some style (I don't think that's unfiar) so I don't think Senna had to force any announcement.

Originally posted by BBKing

Isn't Prost known for his ability to reach agreements behind closed doors? (when he was a driver, now that he is a owner he sucks even at that)

Why they red flaged the race in Monaco 84 exactly when Senna got ahead of Prost and not 10 laps earlier when the rain was even worse than at that moment? Prost and Balestre again. I am glad prost lost the champioship by 0.5 points that he should have gotten if he was finished the race in second place.

Yep, Prost is definitely a political animal, but no more than TGF and he never told them to write a non-overtaking clause into his team mate's contract.

They red flagged it before Senna passed him. The final lap didn't count and Prost had already slowed even further. As has been said before about this, Stefan Belloff would have beaten Senna anyway, if they'd kept running. I don't think Jackie Ickx will ever be able to live this down.

Originally posted by BBKing

I got the video from inside Prost and Senna's car and from the chopper. It is evident to me that he turned in way before he should have. The difference is that he was not man enough to admit to it. Or there was not a Brazilian at the head of FIA that would have force him to do so .

Have another look at the vid and think "Silverstone, Priory, Hill, Schumacher". Then tell me you still see a driver deliberately driving into another.

Cheers.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by BBKing

You want to change my name Adam*******?

Oh Thanks.

You could have looked later in my post to see that I agreed with you about MS place in history (which you did very cleverly work out yourself, something that I never doubted).

Also I am suprised by your history, it wasn't something I was aware of. I knew Balestre prefered Prost, but I didn't know that Prost had asked him to disqualify Senna. I also didn't know that it was a definite part of history with no other interpretatiions that Prost drove into Senna. Obviously those who think that maybe Senna tried a move from too far back and Prost took his line are uninformed. Prost is also lying when he says "I honestly didn't think that he would try a move as he was too far back" (paraphrased and not a direct historical quote).

Sorry, but I just thought it was a bit strong that you claimed things were definite history when, to be fair, there is probably no evidence either way (unless BBKing is a pseudonym for Prost).

Cheers

*******.

[Peter Mallett]

Messrs King and Ashmore.

RACE OFFICIAL HAT ON

I think that makes it evens so now we can get back on topic. Also may I suggest that if you wish to continue please settle this using the pm system.

Race official hat removed

Its too hot to wear it today.

[Peter Mallett]

There is something being raised here.

Can anybody confirm that Balestre was a friend of Prost's?

I have something nagging at the back of my memory which says that JMB was responsible for royally p*(()*g of Alain when he was driving for Renault. Don't actually recall what it was though.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Messrs King and Ashmore.

RACE OFFICIAL HAT ON

I think that makes it evens so now we can get back on topic. Also may I suggest that if you wish to continue please settle this using the pm system.

Race official hat removed

Its too hot to wear it today.

My Apologises

Adam

P.S. It's raining here!

[Peter Mallett]

No need to apologise. I haven't worn it for ages. It's plus 30 degs here.

[Bononi]

Peter, I think I remember something about JMB X Prost back in Renault days... but I clearly remember he was not very popular on the pitlane

And as I long as I remember, JMB was more biased towards Senna, in the same way that Bernie is with TGF... (pardon me if I'm wrong)

[Peter Mallett]

OOh, now you may well have something there. Maybe Murph or someone can shed some light on this?

JMB used to run hot and cold on a regular basis. I don't believe a week went buy without him making some kind of sweeping statement.