Zippy - Page 2

Kicking-back · 6 Apr 2004, 10:20 (Ref:932044)

It was always an unnecessary series anyway.

Getting rid of unnecessary series will strengthen others.

It's good news.

Bobie · 6 Apr 2004, 10:30 (Ref:932055)

So which series will be nect to go? You are right there are too may series now so times need to change and I think the next one to go will be F3000

JohnMiller · 6 Apr 2004, 12:50 (Ref:932218)

Yep, getting rid of F3000 will really alter junior single-seaters in the UK.

Anyway, I though it was becoming GP2 next year?

Kicking-back · 6 Apr 2004, 12:58 (Ref:932235)

It is!

On that point - get rid of Dallara Nissan and Euro 3000 as well as 3000 and just have GP2.

JohnMiller · 6 Apr 2004, 13:08 (Ref:932247)

It is now a fact that then that the two series established that offered 'level playing fields' - being Zip and FPA both failed due to lack of interest. (Before anyone starts I know the complaints of FPA etc.)
Zip was undoubtedly affected by the, most will say, poor looks of the car but it must be said that Martin Hines and co certainly put their money where there mouths were and paid for the likes of Sky TV and FR2000 prize drives.
Although the BRDC series, managed ably, gets regular runners they do have a constant stream of 'leads' via the school.
I have no great love of Zip or Hines Racing International etc. but, having driven the car, can testify it was fun to drive and race.
Obviously the professional teams loathed it as it did them out of work.
I can't see anyone else sinking potloads of cash in to start a similar series..

Triple J Motorsport · 6 Apr 2004, 13:13 (Ref:932254)

What about Avon Clubman FFZetec sorry FF1800. Drive the right type of car a year early. Same budget as FF1600.

John

JohnMiller · 6 Apr 2004, 13:15 (Ref:932256)

No, I agree (owning both FF1600 and FF1800). I just find it a surprise Zip didn't attract more drivers. I am not trying to commentate on its validity.

kickstart · 6 Apr 2004, 13:15 (Ref:932258)

Unless things pick up fairly quickly with BARC F Renault, only 10 runners out at Rockingham, then I suspect that it may be forced to join in with another series ARP F3 or F4 or Monoposto 2000. Before anyone says anything I am not "having a go" at BARC Renault, I simply enjoy racing and spectating when this is a full grid of 30 or so cars rather than 10 or 14, as the spectacle is quite different

JohnMiller · 6 Apr 2004, 13:17 (Ref:932260)

Can't see BARC Renault joining with BRSCC ARP, but funny things do happen. Not too many ARPs entered for Mallory on Monday - but probably just about enough.

Maybe Britcar will start with single-seaters next?

Kicking-back · 6 Apr 2004, 13:53 (Ref:932301)

Agree on the point about "level playing field" series failing.

That's because drivers would rather be on an unlevel playing field so they can blame something other than lack of ability for lack of results.

Palmer used to get that all the time, when some people just wouldn't accept they couldn't hack it.

**bella** · 6 Apr 2004, 14:00 (Ref:932312)

if you get rid of the nissans and renault v6's of the world we'd have plenty more people whining they'd not been given a chance to show off to the f1 guys. and until f3k/f2 comes back down to £500,000-£600,000 for a decent season no-one's going to be able to afford it.

level playing field series are bad news because they promote cheating to try and get that edge over everyone else. with non level ones you just buy the fastest bits and develop some more.

zip was a bit of a tabloid series, if you ask me. you know, big headlines, big promises, naff all happening.

Russfeld · 6 Apr 2004, 14:33 (Ref:932353)

FPA was also ridiculously competitive. From the Snetterton round of the last "serious" year, you had Bruno Besson on pole at 1:04.266, Richard Tarling in 12th +.523 and Allan Simonsen in 18th +1.068

By comparison, at the last Renault race (Snetterton again)
Hamilton was fastest at 05.654, Paul Di Resta was 7th at +.533 and Daniel Welch was 18th at +1.091 (interestingly in Fords 11th place was only half a second off)

My point being that if a half second difference in FPA puts you 12th on the grid, of course its going to look like something's up if you're on pole one day and 12th the next, not remembering the fact that one lap to another your pace can vary by up to half a second.

Boomer · 6 Apr 2004, 14:48 (Ref:932373)

Zip has produced drivers who have stepped up to bigger national series and been quick Spencer, Morrow, Bridgeman, Turvey, Hogan. As has FPA even after its transition to a club series - Ryan Lewis.

Old Ropey · 6 Apr 2004, 19:24 (Ref:932666)

As ActiveMS mentioned earlier, it is Jonathan isn't it, for anyone wanting to try single seaters there is nothing to compare with Formula Jedi(nee Honda) on a performance/cost basis.
Sure I'm biased, but I've looked at everything at club level over the past couple of years and I'm more convinced than before.
This year we will have 25-30 cars at most if not all meetings, and may have separate races for the 2 engine classes at the first meeting at Croft on 17/18 April, that's 4 in all.
It's got everything, old guys, young guys, quick & slow, fathers & sons in the same race, just a pity it's not better known, though an article I put in Karting mag has generated a fair amount of interest.
A quick 1000 car is certainly on a par with FPA and not a million miles from F Renault whilst a 600 gives a Zetec a good run for it' money, at a 20th or 30th of the cost!!

andy97 · 6 Apr 2004, 19:29 (Ref:932673)

I can't understand how Zip could have got itself a place on the MSAs authorised list of approved career progression series and then collapse just 6 months later. Surely the MSA asked for guarantees of interest before allocating Zip the 3rd rung place?

Anyway, I never liked the look of the Zip cars myself but at least Martin Hines tried to PROMOTE racing and managed to get media coverage via TV, links with Jordan and the E Bay stunts etc.

I hope that the cars don't languish in a garage - let the series run in a clubman format within Monoposto! The same is true for BARC F Renault, too - You could have a Zip and F Renault Cup series run within the existing Mono class structures!

acf8181 · 6 Apr 2004, 19:36 (Ref:932690)

Quote:

Originally posted by Old Ropey
As ActiveMS mentioned earlier, it is Jonathan isn't it, for anyone wanting to try single seaters there is nothing to compare with Formula Jedi(nee Honda) on a performance/cost basis.
Sure I'm biased, but I've looked at everything at club level over the past couple of years and I'm more convinced than before.
This year we will have 25-30 cars at most if not all meetings, and may have separate races for the 2 engine classes at the first meeting at Croft on 17/18 April, that's 4 in all.
It's got everything, old guys, young guys, quick & slow, fathers & sons in the same race, just a pity it's not better known, though an article I put in Karting mag has generated a fair amount of interest.
A quick 1000 car is certainly on a par with FPA and not a million miles from F Renault whilst a 600 gives a Zetec a good run for it' money, at a 20th or 30th of the cost!!

the problem with series like formula jedi is that its seen as a club series, when most young drivers want to be associated with mainstream national motorsport, such as f3. no offence meant by this, i know formula jedi is a top series, but it doesn't have any links with brit f3 or similar.

thinkin about it tho, i'd say the reason zip has failed is more due to the fact that there isn't enough money out there...in other words, no one can afford to go racing.

louis · 6 Apr 2004, 21:22 (Ref:932795)

the formula jedi championship is only at the same level as the BARC renault in terms of a club level championship. 2 years ago BARC Renault had a good 20 cars where have they all gone?

The difference between club and natioanl level series is money. Most if not all series outside the TOCA and F3/GT are club level.Isn't formula renault a club level champiosnhip as lewis hamilton won club driver of the year at the autosport awards! lol

Russfeld · 6 Apr 2004, 21:39 (Ref:932811)

Where's more Formula Jedi info? Id like to see a sample qualifying result

Ian Sowman · 6 Apr 2004, 21:44 (Ref:932820)

Here's one from Oulton last year - apologies for the formatting.

1 1 B Nigel REUBEN Formula Honda Jedi Mk 6 58.511 8 101.76
2 27 B Rob HORSFIELD Jedi Mk6 59.090 8 0.579 100.76
3 13 B Skid CARRERA Jedi Mk VI 1:00.291 9 1.780 98.76
4 8 B Luke KIDSLEY Jedi 4-6/99 1:00.848 7 2.337 97.85
5 38 B Frazer CORBYN Jedi Mk 6 1:00.857 9 2.346 97.84
6 4 A David SCOTT Formula Honda 1:02.327 8 3.816 95.53
7 6 A Louis HAMILTON-SMIT H Formula Honda Jedi 1:02.396 8 3.885 95.42
8 9 A Jodie HEMMING Formula Honda Jedi 1:02.961 9 4.450 94.57
9 5 A Adam SAWARD Formula Honda Jedi 1:03.353 6 4.842 93.98
10 23 B John LORD Jedi 4/99 1:05.135 7 6.624 91.41
11 21 B Paul BUTCHER Jedi Mk IV 1:05.629 7 7.118 90.72
12 30 A Tim CAMERON Jedi S/S 1:07.328 11 8.817 88.43
13 41 B Stuart ABBOTT Jedi Mk 4 1:07.406 8 8.895 88.33
14 10 A Mark HOSKEN Formula Honda Jedi 1:07.553 7 9.042 88.14
15 12 A Chris ROBINSON Jedi Mk6 1:09.344 12 10.833 85.86
16 15 B Graham READ Jedi Mk 4 1:10.933 11 12.422 83.94
17 14 A Paul SANDERS Jedi Mk 4 1:11.957 11 13.446 82.74
18 19 B Ian BLUNT Jedi JJ6 1:13.238 8 14.727 81.30
19 20 A Dax WARD Jedi Mk IV 1:18.290 2 19.779 76.05
20 29 A Len TURNER Jedi Mk 6 1:26.249 10 27.738 69.03
21 3 A David ROPER Formula Honda Jedi Mk4 1:44.606 5 46.095 56.92

Old Ropey · 6 Apr 2004, 21:45 (Ref:932821)

One of the big problems, as I see it, is that kids from 8 years of age when they start kart racing, and their gullible fathers, are encouraged to think they have a real chance of getting into F1.
Hence the rise of Zip, BMW, Renault etc etc as self appointed stepping stones to that holy grail.
I completely fail to understand why so many are so deluded when, if they were realistic, they could have great fun and camaraderie chasing proper club championships.
There again, if I had half a million to throw at my lad maybe we wouldn't be racing a Jedi, but anything else wouldn't touch it for value for money.
Half a million, what a car collection I could have for that, he would still be in a Jedi!!

louis · 6 Apr 2004, 21:45 (Ref:932822)

try mst-group.co.uk. last years results try snett on the 4/5 oct for a guide. it was called formaul honda then

Paul Rayner · 6 Apr 2004, 21:48 (Ref:932827)

Quote:

Originally posted by acf8181
the problem with series like formula jedi is that its seen as a club series, when most young drivers want to be associated with mainstream national motorsport, such as f3. no offence meant by this, i know formula jedi is a top series, but it doesn't have any links with brit f3 or similar.

I agree. Zip was a replacement for Formula First, which never produced any Formula 1 drivers because, if you were so low on cash you had to compete in it rather than Ford/Renault, you wouldn't have the cash to make it to F1. Harsh maybe, but that's the way it is.

All these people linked with FF1600/BARC Renault/Formula Jedi saying they're great for aspiring drivers - show me your examples of drivers who've made it through these. I agree they might be a great way to get experience "on the cheap", but have either of these club racing championships produced any drivers that have gone anywhere? If you've driven in a club series, be it right or wrong, it suggests that you've got no money. Which does nothing to attract FRenault/FFord Zetec/F3 bosses. You need money and talent. The former is probably more important. (See Alex Lloyd).

As for Lewis Hamilton winning the club racing driver of the year award - I think that's just because Formula Renault appears in "club" Autosport.

louis · 6 Apr 2004, 22:32 (Ref:932868)

formula honda to name but a few

Rob Austin
Stefan Hodgetts
james Pickford
Mat jackson
Alex Buncombe

dont know to many to come from club FF1600, any names??

JohnMiller · 7 Apr 2004, 08:24 (Ref:933123)

Quote:

Originally posted by Old Ropey
, whilst a 600 gives a Zetec a good run for it' money, at a 20th or 30th of the cost!!

Really.

Running a Zetec in the likes of Mono 1800 or even Clubman 1800 can be done for about £35. (These events have the same status level as Jedis I think.)

That is £40 for a decent second-hand set of rubber that will last three events and £12 for petrol.

Brakepads every few races will make it about £35 total (excluding entries) as the engine will never need a rebuild.

Maybe an annual oil change will add another £30 per year.

If you really can offer a drive for what must be, therefore, about a quid I might be able to get you some drivers...

JohnMiller · 7 Apr 2004, 09:32 (Ref:933178)

In fact, the Jedi vs National Zetecs price comparison seems a favourite of some on here.

It seems rather bizarre - a bit like saying you can run an F1 cheaper in Boss than GP or an F3 cheaper in ARP than proper British F3.

Sure you can, but it's a totally different thing.

You can't win the WDC in Euroboss, the Macau GP in ARP F3 - or a National, promoted, professional racing championship in the club F Jedi Championship!