Nico (DEU) vs TGF (DEU) 2

[Knowlesy]

So after last years triumphant pounding of the seven times world champion by Nico Rosberg, what does 2011 hold in store?

1-0 in qualifying so far to Rosberg, but it looked closer than last year at least. I think if TGF hadn't made that mistake in the fast left-right he'd have been on par with Nico.

But nevertheless, after the pre-season noises it is probably a bit disheartening for the old man.

[JeremySmith]

It's too early to tell don't you think David?..It might be blind faith on my behalf but I think Michael is going to do just fine this year...

[stripedcat]

Although Schumi got beaten today in qualifying, we still have the race to wait for, plus all the other races! It is a bit early to right him off, just yet.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It's too early to tell don't you think David?..It might be blind faith on my behalf but I think Michael is going to do just fine this year...

Did you have blind faith all of last year too? Just how big a tank of blind faith have you got?

I'm sure this isn't a comprehensive list, but the excuses we heard during 2010 included:
He's been out of racing for 3 years. He needs time.
He's not used to the lack of testing.
The Bridgestone tyres don't suit his driving style.
The car wasn't designed to suit his driving style.

When will someone try "He's not quick enough any longer"?

[Knowlesy]

Well nobody has yet, tbf.

[stripedcat]

I think if he does get beaten by Nico this year, he might call it a day by the end of the season. He is 42 after all and to a certain extent he has been there and done that. Getting beaten by a younger team mate he might realise the game is up.

Still we will have to wait and see. This season is a long one.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well nobody has yet, tbf.

I have......

[Mr V]

Same story, different season

[ralf fan]

Tied in mediocrity.

[Knowlesy]

Rosberg was having a decent one until Rubens stuck his nose in.

[Super Hans]

That was idiotic from Rubens. He'd have caught Rosberg eventually, so he should've been patient instead of trying to make a move from so far back. He's been in F1 since 1906 and he's made two rookie errors this weekend alone.

[Knowlesy]

Worryingly DC-2008 spec.

[Born Racer]

Which to be fair, David was quick to acknowledge. Rubens's looked worse.

But once he was committed and on the brakes, perhaps the only thing he could have done was to move left and he may have lost control.

[Massa_number1]

just watched the BBC classic grand prixs they do every weekend and it showed the Hungry GP from 1998 a season that was only good because Schumacher took it to the Mclarens despite them being incredibly fast, he shouldnt have even been able to make a fight of it that season!

i cannot believe watching it again just how good Schumacher was back then in the Brawn/Todt/Bryne era no other driver racing today would have won that race in that car and circumstances(even schumacher himself now).Thats what is frustrating really the fact people now question his ability and if he ever really was that good? he was incredible in his prime no doubt about it

[SALEEN S7R]

I think its still too early to write off Schumacher, give him another couple of races and then re asses the situation. Australia always throws up some odd results and suprises as is traditional now. Yes im sure Schumacher was dissapointed after the pre season pace the car indicated it has but if Ross Brawn and co are to be beleived it wasnt really down to the drivers. It will be interesting to see how Schumacher comes back at one of the more traditional style GP circuits this weekend. Personally im not expecting him to win of course, but a top 6 finish should be achievable if the car is good. As for how he will do against Rosberg? Well I dont think he is going to destroy him by any means, but if he can get ahead and beat him then he will be doing a good job.

[Massa_number1]

thanks for the replys herowassenna you have made some good points and rightfully corrected me on some points but

A race where De Cesaris was leading and nearly won the following day. So I'm assuming a great car...

Andrea Di Cesaris led the race but was out qualified by his rookie teammate on the what could be described as one of the true great circuits in the world (majority opinion of course) any way you look at it this was a sign of real talent

He actually finished second. A great drive absolutely, by the only quality driver in the field. I remember Senna running with only top gear in the 1991 Brazilian GP, an effort that meant he was lifted from the car.

your correct sorry he finished second, despite being stuck in fifth gear for most of the race,,he managed to make a pitstop (and get away from the pit stop in 5th gear) the field not being that great is your own opinion and your entitled to it

moss did make that comment its something i remember from the BBC coverage that year saying the way schumacher drove that day was how fangio desimated the field

Agreed, some great races, and considering how "great" he could be, Suzuka 1998 was pathetic. Stalling on the grid when the Championship was there for the taking? Schumacher and Pressure never really worked together in a sentence...

pathetic? you see this makes me thing your just being hateful for no reason or trolling because the clutch failed and ferrari say this was because of the time it took for the cars at the back to get to the grid,every driver makes mistakes especially those who push to the absolute limit like schumacher (believe me senna was not perfect either) do you also forget that he drove a great race in suzuka to get into 3rd place only for a puncture to end his chances for good oh wait was that because the grid was ****?

how can it be schumachers fault if the grid was as bad as people make out you can only beat what is put in front of you maybe he should have chosen a different year to be born

I was grateful because Irvine couldn't lead a team. Wasn't it also wonderful how Schumi's daughter had to go get "injured" daddy from the garden when Luca called, he was playing football. I agreed with him totally not gifting it to Irvine but at least be honest. Then again, Adelaide 94, Jerez 97, Monaco 2006....

playing football in the garden with your children is a bit different to driving at 200mph with 21 other cars dont you think? yes we know about schumachers ruthless tactics to win the titles reminds me of another driver who drove into someone at 150mph to secure a title .....

Once again agreed. But this is where I believe your argument is starting to fall down. His brilliance was pre 2000, by then he had the dominant car provided by Ferrari, and the complete infrastructure

his brilliance continued until 2004 in my opinion thats all it is our opinion but lets say your right he peaked pre 2000 so your saying he won 5 titles (albeit in a very good car) when he wasnt as good? then he must have been damn good if thats the case in his prime..special even?

ferrari didnt take the **** they didnt just win in f1 they utterly destroyed the opposition crushed them because they had the best of everything best car best designer (bar newey) best driver and they deserved it because they built what they had over 4 years when Schumacher joined

I dont know of this journalist but it was his opinion that doesnt mean to say its 100% correct just like me and your are not 100% correct its just how we view things ill tell you one thing I do not doubt and that is that Senna was better than Schumacher I really wish they raced more in 1994 it would have been a real classic between the young German and veteran Brazilian.I dont think Schumacher is as good as he was, of course not and since this thread is about now not then I will get back on topic

[Louis Agilais]

to Adam43: Well, that is my opinion: it's insulting to change a person's name, and racist to do it by refering to its nationality (although it may seem subtle, it's very clear to me: to mention a persons nationality without any clear purpose is implying there's a difference in that person's qualities because of that, and that's racism (xenofoby) by definition). And even if you don't realize or dont intent to, that's what transpires to a newcomer. Hence my remark to whoever runs this place. And it's insulting to change a person's name, at least in my planet. And when I say "change", I mean use other name than the real one.

That is my point. Just to clarify, I'll paste my inicial remark:

"And to the posters of this forum: TGF is a racist term, whatever you say, and (to the managers) that is the image that sticks to an ocasional viewer who happens to stumble here."

[Razzzor]

I don't think Rosberg will ever have caught Alonso, and certainly had no chance on gods green earth of ever passing him, especially without DRS. Hell even Vettel and Hamilton couldn't pass Alonso, and those are probably the 2 best overtakers in F1 at the moment.

If Rosberg had 0.3s a lap over Schumi, it would have taken him 50 laps to have closed that 15s gap to Alonso, which he'd need clear air for. And this is assuming Schumi was flat out the entire race - he may have been coasting because Alonso was so far ahead for most of the race and he knew he wouldn't be able to pass him. Only speculating, but I don't think Rosberg really had a chance to catch Alonso.

As for TGF, I have been wondering what that stood for. I don't think it's racist, just disrespectful. Racist would be referring to Hamilton as TBF (that black fella).

[rocketracer]

i use the term TGF and use it as a term of endearment. Surely we're getting a bit precious about it?

With regards to schumacher's career - his latter days do not tarnish my memories of his extraordinary drives. Not only that but as any truly great driver does, they change the game. And this he did significantly.

Schumacher set new levels of work ethic and integration with the designers of the team - which set a precedent for the young guys coming through such as alonso, and now vettel. Only, schumacher did it so much better.

And this skill of rallying a team around his cause is a talent to be admired as much as driving.

The one thing that possibly gets overlooked was his thinking on the run. His ability to strategise whilst in the driving seat, and find solutions in conjunction with Brawn, was just stunning. Hungary 98 (?) was a great example of that.

I must admit i didnt see much of senna's career in the 80's, as i only picked up on f1 regularly in the early 90's, but TGF is the guy who really stood out as just being head and shoulders above everyone else for at least a decade. Granted, he had a ferrari chequebook for much of this time to explore his ideas, but throwing money doesnt guarantee success. So the accolades are still valid.

Any sportsman who dominates at the highest level (there are many parallels with michael jordan - who returned as a shade of his former playing self as well) and is emulated by the crop of young drivers coming through, deserves to go down in history as one of the greats. And i believe that is how TGF should, and will be seen.

That he is being beaten by rosberg is neither a surprise nor a disgrace.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

As for TGF, I have been wondering what that stood for. I don't think it's racist, just disrespectful. Racist would be referring to Hamilton as TBF (that black fella).

I agree with you. It certainly isnt wantonly provocative or likely to be said or taken as offensive. Lets remind ourselves what he actually is..... Hmmm, he seems to be That German Fellow, the one who won all those races.

I have heard him referred to as far worse, far more disrespectful things than TGF over the years.

I think it is an issue prone to over-sensitivity, perhaps even over reaction.
I dont see it as even slightly demeaning or race related. Or even something that could be interpreted a being anti, or prejudicial. Disrespectful? Well I dont understand how associating anyone with their country could be

Rather than be offended, most people are proud of their nationality, rather than not or be secretive.

Heck, maybe we should cease forthwith the practice of playing a GP winners National Anthem, particularly stop raising the drivers country flag on the podium..... because they identify a person with a country for no real reason other than 'because it can.'

With reference to Michaels thoughts or stance on being identified as a German..... I cant see it a problem to him.. After all, for the early part of his career he used to wear a crash helmet that was white with a blue top and the German flag around the side and back. Bit of a clue as to his nationality.

I am proudly British, although I have lived now in Australia for 25 years and consider it my home. When I was first here all my new Australian friends used to call me POM, a slang and supposedly demeaning name for 'the English / British. However I never once considered it even slightly racially predjudiced or demeaning, and indeed it was more of a term of endearment.

TGF as a nickname is totally inoffensive I believe. So what if he is German. Or Finnish, British, Russian Japanese or any of the 15 Nationalities represented on the F1 grid this year. I had always felt he was proud of being German. After all he has driven representing Germany, in the annual Race of Champions Nations Cup. He unashamedly supported Germany in the recent World Cup.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Louis Agilais

to Adam43: Well, that is my opinion: it's insulting to change a person's name, and racist to do it by refering to its nationality (although it may seem subtle, it's very clear to me: to mention a persons nationality without any clear purpose is implying there's a difference in that person's qualities because of that, and that's racism ( xenophobia) by definition). And even if you don't realize or don't intend to, that's what transpires to a newcomer. Hence my remark to whoever runs this place. And it's insulting to change a person's name, at least in my planet. And when I say "change", I mean use other name than the real one.

That is my point. Just to clarify, I'll paste my initial remark:

"And to the posters of this forum: TGF is a racist term, whatever you say, and (to the managers) that is the image that sticks to an ocasional viewer who happens to stumble here."

I've corrected and underlined a few spelling mistakes just so your message come across as you intended.

When you've been around here a bit longer you'll understand that TGF was in no way intended racially. Originally, I think it was quite affectionate although for me it's just more convenient than writing the name out in full. Use MS if you prefer.

In the same way a certain Finnish driver has always been referred to as Kimi, even by those who don't like him, because it's much easier to type than Räikkönen.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by strider

I've corrected and underlined a few spelling mistakes just so your message come across as you intended.

When you've been around here a bit longer you'll understand that TGF was in no way intended racially. Originally, I think it was quite affectionate although for me it's just more convenient than writing the name out in full. Use MS if you prefer.

In the same way a certain Finnish driver has always been referred to as Kimi, even by those who don't like him, because it's much easier to type than Räikkönen.

This is just plain patronising and insulting!

Not to mention the use of come above is incorrect, for a start!

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Massa_number1

reminds me of another driver who drove into someone at 150mph to secure a title .....

I agree, the most disgusting piece of driving I have ever witnessed.

Originally Posted by Massa_number1

special even?

Without doubt, which is why I loved the fact he was at Ferrari and dominating so much. I hate Mclaren and hated Senna driving there, how I wished he'd signed for Ferrari, sadly not to be...
But for all his incredible success and records, his non-acceptance of a quality team-mate who could fight him, left a sour taste in my mouth. It always raised the question, how good could he have truly been if pushed properly.

Personally, I don't believe Rosberg is a great driver and it's sad to see him beating Schumi so easily,, but it raises the question that maybe Schumi deciding on his team-mate was actually more important than we realised.
After all, this was the man who had written in his Benetton contract that if they ever signed Senna, he could leave....

Originally Posted by Massa_number1

I dont know of this journalist

A famous journalist within the British media. He would probably be better known as the co-driver for Stirling Moss's 1955 Mille Miglia victory

[ljakse]

As I've sad this time last year - TGF can beat Rosberg ONLY by preferential treatment.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by ljakse

As I've sad this time last year - TGF can beat Rosberg ONLY by preferential treatment.

That's an utter lie.





He can always run Nico off the track.