Dijon 1979 - Where were the FIA Stewards!

[Dan Friel]

I mean look at the footage.. locking wheels, banzai overtaking, cars off the racing line, controlled aggression, fantastic racing, drivers with character. Well it's taken 30 years for the FIA to stamp it out, about time too. Bring on the Chinese GP!

[johntt]

Just awful isn't it .

[Peter Mallett]

Don't let the puppet Donely(?) see that. He'd be on the phone to Max before you could say "racing". Actually I'm told they will need to carry out a phonectomy on him anyway. He's only got one number in his contacts list. Sad git.

[Knowlesy]

I suppose the answer is watching it and enjoying it.

[Bononi]

I am lucky enough to have watched those days and can remember how breathtaking it was, even more when there always the prospect of a death every weekend race.
If you can, try harder and look away from the action to observe the safety conditions of the track. I tell you, hardly a modern driver would dare to perform like that.

[Super Hans]

If it happened now, Arnoux would get a stop-go for going off track and Jabouille would have a 25sec penalty imposed post-race for wearing the wrong sort of underpants, leaving Villeneuve to take victory for the boys from Maranello.

[Marshal]

Nice topic Dan, oh for racers to be left to race, in cars that can.....

[Marbot]

Let's not forget how much more dangerous and awe inspiring it was then and how much safer and more sanitised it is now.

[andy_b]

on you tube btw

[doug911]

When I think of races like that it makes it all the more annoying that the bunch of grannies in F1 today are wingeing no end about Hamilton's driving.

Lets have the dodgy moves, wheel banging and all the rest....we want racing..not etiquette!

Get out there and race......if you cant stand the heat.......

[Croc]

Last year at Fuji, Massa had a great battle with Kubica on the last lap in the rain, of course it can't be compared to the epic one between Gilles and Arnoux, but considering the actual stage of F1 it was still pretty exciting.

If we can't bring back the good old times, at least we can hope that the last year stewards can be brought back, to allow the 1 or 2 overtakes that usually happens in races these days.

[Racer 35]

News just in from the stewards.....
36 incidents involving cars number 12 and 16 under investigation.
(Blatant racing cited as possible misdemenour)

[sizzle]

Man did you check the crowd on the start/finish line!!!!

[climb]

Actually I don't think any one would be penalized, since neither Rene nor Gilles had their race result tainted by that duel: everyone continued thereafter with undamaged cars and no spin.

[Peter Mallett]

A bit like (dare I mention it) Spa 2008 then?

[djb]

Bon, as you mentioned, look at those bloody "catch fences" from back then, god they were a terrible idea. One doesnt want to imagine getting tangled up in one, unable to get out of the cockpit with fuel leaking or burning--really damn scarey! I don't remember how long they were around.

I have said this before, but coming from a bike background, this whole discussion always comes back to taking risks on track vs potential dangers. In the past, guys just couldn't get away with acting like silly buggers on track, your and others lives were very much in danger, similiar to etiquette with bike racing, you muck up and you go for a toss...

It still irks me to no end (along with most other people of course) the Bourdais penalty--this one really deserves a higher up condemnation by someone with the authority and the guts to call the emperors clothes...

I do wonder realistically if in the future there will be a change of how the "refereeing" is to be done, I imagine that Ecclestone and Mosely will have the final say in this, so I am not holding my breath unfortunately.

cheers

[JohnSSC]

Not to rain on a perfectly good anti-FIA rant, but back in those days weren't the stewards independent of the FIA? I believe they had to have FIA credentials but that each track provided them independently.

It is only in the last decade (??) that there was any set group of stewards.

I could well be wrong about this but that could explain why they there was little in the way of penalties and such for all but the most egregious of errors. F1 was not nearly as "structured" back then as it is now and race meets were much more like, well race meets than the "events" we have today.

I would defer here to members like EERO who have a better knowledge of the history of that era and hopefully could step in here and add/correct my post.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

But of course independent or not, the rules they work to now are vastly different to then, so really the thread is irrelevant other than to poke a satirical dig at the FIA, which is fun.

As to catch fencing, IIRC it was around from 1976 to approximately 85 when kitty litter was introduced. It's prompted me to check, so I'll be back.

[Peter Mallett]

Found this:

http://www.motorracing-archive.com/M...s/Brands-Hatch

Early in 1975, Silver Jubilee year for the circuit, Brands Hatch was given a tarmac facelift and in 1976 £100,000 was spent on track and safety work. Paddock Hill Bend was realigned, slightly shortening the circuit as the apex was moved in order to reduce the risk of cars hitting the outside bank. The old part of the track was left as a runoff area. Bottom Straight was realigned making it straighter and safety improvements included more armco and catchfencing, the marshals’ posts were re-sited again. That was Phase 1 of a total programme which would amount to the investment of £300,000.

So catch fencing came in in 1976 or thereabouts.

[Teretonga]

Catch fencing was earlier.
Scheckter went off at Silverstone GP in 73 and caused a nightmare of the crash and it was all that net stuff that cars were tangled up in...

It was the best in technology at the time and far better than hitting solid walls in aluminium monocoques which crumpled trapping drivers feet.
The big failure was the effect of the poles cracking open helmets, something that caused Mark Donahue's death later in the decade.

No we wouldn't use it now because we have something better and more effective, but that is progress.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I suppose the answer is watching it and enjoying it.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was too young to see this at the time but I've seen it since - like the FFord festival!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Catch fencing was earlier.
Scheckter went off at Silverstone GP in 73 and caused a nightmare of the crash and it was all that net stuff that cars were tangled up in...

It was the best in technology at the time and far better than hitting solid walls in aluminium monocoques which crumpled trapping drivers feet.
The big failure was the effect of the poles cracking open helmets, something that caused Mark Donahue's death later in the decade.

No we wouldn't use it now because we have something better and more effective, but that is progress.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall he bounced back on to the circuit, thus there was no catch fencing in 73, it was introduced later.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Scheckter went off at Silverstone GP in 73 and caused a nightmare of the crash and it was all that net stuff that cars were tangled up in...

You must be mistaken. No cars ended up tangled in catch-fencing in that incident.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall he bounced back on to the circuit...

He didn't bounce off anything. He put his left rear on the grass exiting Woodcote and spun to a halt in the middle of the straight.

Sorry for being a know-it-all!

[djb]

the film of that accident is rather chilling isnt it, albeit taken with a very long tele that compressed everything, but it is still amazing noone died or was seriously injured (not sure on that but I dont think there were serious injuries--other than poor old Team Surtees being taken out en masse , well, both..)

and yes, I guess progress is easy to look back on and shudder at things that seem archaic now--no speed limit pitlanes etc etc, incidents with mechanics, marshalls, etc that more strictness reduced to naughtish.

as for a poke of fun at the FIA, I'll take the opportunity with pleasure. Heck, look at this whole Montreal GP thing, its like clockwork, Mr E wants more money, he can get it elsewhere and he gets out this seemingly routine threat for here, Silverstone , whereever the need arises (with non-motorsport countries willing to give him whatever he wants for the good press) It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth--and yes, I know this isnt about penalties...sorry

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

You must be mistaken. No cars ended up tangled in catch-fencing in that incident.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Super Hans

He didn't bounce off anything. He put his left rear on the grass exiting Woodcote and spun to a halt in the middle of the straight.

Sorry for being a know-it-all!

Fair comment, I was positionally correct.

Interestingly someone has just posted some pics of the ETCC 1973 from Silverstone in Historics. No catch fencing to be seen anywhere.

You aren't a know it all. There are other names though.