|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
2 Mar 2012, 20:04 (Ref:3034141) | #2776 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,873
|
|||
|
2 Mar 2012, 20:06 (Ref:3034142) | #2777 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,873
|
Quote:
But even so, the e-tron must have a natural advantage in the wet. Audi haven't raced the R18 much in properly wet conditions so they don't have an experience advantage. |
|||
|
2 Mar 2012, 21:58 (Ref:3034209) | #2778 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,654
|
Quote:
No, Audi don't have any real experience with the R18 in the wet, but they have loads of experience of building cars which perform well in the wet. Toyota have no experience at all with a wet Le Mans. |
|||
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
2 Mar 2012, 22:13 (Ref:3034215) | #2779 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,261
|
In the wet they usually drive slower right? So how could they build up enough charge in the system to have a big enough power boost from the hybrid system?
|
||
__________________
MBL - SpeedyMouse Race House |
2 Mar 2012, 22:23 (Ref:3034221) | #2780 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,654
|
|||
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
2 Mar 2012, 22:32 (Ref:3034227) | #2781 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,261
|
Wouldn't it be a slower and less intense event compared to what would occur under normal circumstances in the dry or does it only matter that the generator is being spun?
|
||
__________________
MBL - SpeedyMouse Race House |
2 Mar 2012, 22:42 (Ref:3034233) | #2782 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,654
|
|||
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
2 Mar 2012, 22:46 (Ref:3034240) | #2783 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,261
|
That's why I'm asking
|
||
__________________
MBL - SpeedyMouse Race House |
2 Mar 2012, 23:42 (Ref:3034273) | #2784 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
The performance balance question is a bit more tricky. The LMP technical regulations contain the following vague sentence about the energy recovery system (article 1.13): Quote:
Quote:
The big problem is that the performance of a hybrid system will be track dependent. More braking means more potential KERS activations. At Le Mans the performance advantage of the hybrid system will probably be the smallest of all WEC rounds. |
||||
|
3 Mar 2012, 00:52 (Ref:3034284) | #2785 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,793
|
|||
|
3 Mar 2012, 01:09 (Ref:3034290) | #2786 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 21
|
Autosport magazine confirms Lotterer-Treluyer and McNish full WEC.
|
|
|
3 Mar 2012, 06:32 (Ref:3034339) | #2787 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,347
|
It will be interesting to see how they use it is the wet - it may be that they build the charge up and use it more through the Porsche curves I know there is a maximum discharge between braking points but there are at least 2 in the curves) as the AWD should have a big advantage for longer their?
Also I noted they have entered 3 cars for Sebring - I hadnt previously clocked that |
||
|
3 Mar 2012, 17:28 (Ref:3034567) | #2788 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 555
|
Considering the loss of traction in wet conditions, if there is less power being developed then it probably keeps everything consistent.
|
|
|
3 Mar 2012, 17:59 (Ref:3034575) | #2789 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,827
|
Interesting that Audi has yet to do an actual endurance test with the e-Tron since they've had the car since October if their press release is to be believed. I don't imagine that Audi hasn't been to Sebring unless to test for reliability (their main purpose for testing there), so could've they have been also testing the Ultra to endurance test other components (gearbox casing and new front suspension) for the sake of some endurance tests since as it doesn't have the hybrid system on it and is more of a known quantity? Or has Audi yet to do serious endurance testing at all with either car, since they seem to haven't done much as far as a 24-30 hour test yet, certainly with the hybrid?
I also read the comments about the R18's front visibility not changing much in the front right of the windshield. Two comments I found interesting is that the drivers learned to look though the fender louvers--wouldn't the lack of louvers help with that now. I also liked the suggestion that Toyota may have the same issues and that the ACO and FIA are partly to blame for the situation. In a way, they're not, but also to an extent are. No one made Audi or Toyota design closed cars with the drivers sitting so far back and low, and they didn't make Audi or Toyota per rules make the teams run the wide wheels and tires. But the power sapping regs basically forced the hand of Audi and TMG to run the wider tires, because with limited straightline speeds, they had to make up the speed and time somewhere, and if they didn't, someone else would. The rules didn't make them, but how the rules have been applied forced their hand, since Acura did it, and it was a matter of time before someone--even a private team--exploited it. I also noted rumors of Audi using the rear view camera equipment to give a clearer RF view--anyone know if TMG are running similar rear view equipment? Edit: new video in English at Audi Sport Facebook page. Video quality isn't great, but it is in English, at least. Hopefully it'll be on You Tube soon, since I at least don't really like Facebook's video player. Last edited by chernaudi; 3 Mar 2012 at 18:21. |
||
|
3 Mar 2012, 18:22 (Ref:3034589) | #2790 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 362
|
Quote:
I know Mike Fuller and others said the windshield was new, but to be honest it looks exactly the same as the old car and I couldn't tell a differnece |
|||
|
3 Mar 2012, 18:42 (Ref:3034598) | #2791 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,827
|
I don't think that the issue is the windscreen, which is enlarged a bit on account of the wider upper tub--it's the width of the tires combined with the height of the tires. The diesel LMP1s ran 680mm vs 650mm diameter in 2006, and Michelin standardized on 680mm diameter tires for all LMP1s in 2007. When the normal 13" tire width/13-13.5" wheels were used, it wasn't a major issue.
When the 14+" tires and 14.5" wheels started to be used, that's when it became an issue, and it seems that the taller drivers like Fassler, Ben and Andre, and Wurz have dealt with it better since they sit higher in the cars in regards to the sight line--guys like McNish and Kristensen have taken a hit because they can't get their sight line up high enough to clear the wider inboard fenders. The taller tires don't help much, but it's the width and having to have wider inner fenders to allow for the steering lock that's an issue, and with how far back the drivers have to sit in the Toyota, they might have similar issues with left side vision. |
||
|
3 Mar 2012, 19:03 (Ref:3034606) | #2792 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 362
|
Quote:
I wondered what changing the windscreen really would improve to be honest ,and thats why I didn't expect a night and day difference with a newer screen- |
|||
|
3 Mar 2012, 23:13 (Ref:3034681) | #2793 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
|
||
|
3 Mar 2012, 23:16 (Ref:3034682) | #2794 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
|
||
|
4 Mar 2012, 00:09 (Ref:3034708) | #2795 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,827
|
I don't think that carbon and polymer technology is advanced enough to make an "all" carbon gearbox casing in the literal sense. I'll bet that most F1 "all carbon" gearboxes still used a hefty amount of aluminum or magnesium reinforcing members and components to give structural integrity to the casing assembly.
This basic polymer technology has been around for many years now, and I'd have to say that it'll be a while before we see this in firearms or aircraft, or race cars for that matter--there's as much steel in the slides and barrels of most polymer framed pistols as there is in most conventional pistol's frames, and the same goes for rifles with polymer receivers, with there again being large amounts of metal in the barrels and bolts. The enemy with the all CFC gearbox casing is the same as for firearms and high performance aircraft, namely high speed military combat planes, such as jet fighters--heat. There are probably polymers that might be flame or heat resistant enough under work and R&D, but such items are prohibitively expensive to use for much of anything until the bugs get worked out. One thing that might help Audi is that the gearbox casing isn't a fully stressed member of the car's structure in the way that the engine is. But I still think that an entirely CFC gearbox is a stretch, and I'd bet that for reliability, if nothing else, there's plenty of high-tensile lightweight metal in that casing, maybe ingeniously arranged or assembled to get the "Ultra" light weight desired. |
||
|
4 Mar 2012, 02:43 (Ref:3034762) | #2796 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,831
|
Quote:
It's my understanding that the a CF LMP gearbox still has to overcome the long duty cycle issue. When CF was common in F1 box casings regulations weren't in place mandating mulit-race usage. Thus they could be chucked after each race if need be. You really don't want to have to chuck you LMP 'box after every 2 hours during the 24. Sure, the resins are better now, but I'm not so sure they are so much better that we've turned the corner and now are capable of 24 hour reliable CF boxes, though we might be getting close. Another thing to consider is the higher torque loads a diesel box needs to withstand. Thus we might not see it in a diesel LMP but could see it in a gas powered LMP if the budget and motivation (design necessity) existed. |
||
|
4 Mar 2012, 04:58 (Ref:3034781) | #2797 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,392
|
Toyota hasn't gone that route. Perhaps they follow these words?
|
|
|
4 Mar 2012, 12:44 (Ref:3034944) | #2798 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,827
|
I saw the cutaway illustration, and I definitely saw quite a bit of metal around where the axles/half shafts come out. I wouldn't rule out that Audi replaced some of the parts on the actual casing with carbon, but I'll bet that in areas where there's a lot of heat or stress, they're probably aluminum or magnesium, or maybe a carbon skin bonded to aluminum.
I doubt that Audi will have an "all" carbon gearbox--I think that the Dome composite carbon/aluminum solution is more viable and probably closer to the approach that Audi has taken with the R18 e-Tron/Ultra. Basically, in lesser stressed or heated areas, go with carbon, but elsewhere, lightweight metal. Overall, I don't think that the principal is significantly different than last year, but is an evolution/refinement, especially when you consider that the R10's and R15 gearboxes were lighter than the R8's, and that the R18's engine is now as light as if not lighter than the R8's, and that it probably wasn't much heavier to start with, either. And on the engine front, Baretzky said that they're refined the combustion and intake/exhaust cycles and systems on the car, obviously to improve efficiency and increase power--could this explain the possibly slightly different engine note, and the rounder, perhaps larger exhaust pipe? It seems that if the pipe's larger, it would reduce back pressure, especially when you consider that the R18 seemed in the videos to smoke less than last year, so maybe a different filter design as well? |
||
|
4 Mar 2012, 13:04 (Ref:3034952) | #2799 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
|
4 Mar 2012, 13:34 (Ref:3034957) | #2800 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
In case you want to see a picture of the all carbon fiber Red Bull gearbox, you should have a look at http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...sion-detailed/ BTW the Ferrari gearbox is hybrid titanium/carbon fiber, Renault/Lotus uses titanium and Mercedes and Williams use aluminium. |
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion | Simmi | North American Racing | 9260 | 5 Mar 2024 20:32 |
[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion | Gingers4Justice | ACO Regulated Series | 6771 | 18 Aug 2020 09:37 |
Nissan LMP1 Discussion | Gingers4Justice | Sportscar & GT Racing | 5568 | 17 Feb 2016 23:22 |
How about a LMP1 Pro & LMP1 Privateer class | Holt | Sportscar & GT Racing | 35 | 6 Jun 2012 13:44 |
[LM24 Race] Audi LMP1 Poster all art deco'd. | blackohio | ACO Regulated Series | 2 | 27 Oct 2011 06:30 |