Audi LMP1 Discussion

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by CTD

How much media did Porches wins give compared to Audi's fights with Peugeot!?.

Manufactures will ONLY go to Lmp2 if they can win overall!, otherwise there is no PR in the victories.

a transition period... to the complete perversion of the LMS.. only Pug with diesel and for sure diesel will be in a grave danger of being abolished... too boring having always the same winning!.. unless Mercedes or some Japanese crash the anti-sport spree party.

[geezzz... even the petrol sacred caw BMW has seen the light... 1.5 L 3 cylinder turbo diesel for the M3 hybrid GOING PRODUCTION http://www.gizmag.com/bmw-vision-eff...rts-car/16865/ ]

[CTD]

Originally Posted by hcl123

No. Perhaps Capelo did!



???... or!?... perhaps he knows[or hopes] that diesel is going to be abolished (BP/money talks lauder). Otherwise he can kiss good chances of overall victories goodbye(better to have a LMP2 then).

This is too much!
Do you really thing you know better than a works Audi driver!
Seriously, how old are you!, you remind me, of me when i was at age 12-13, because you see conspiracy everywhere!.

Believe me, sometimes the majority is right, and this is the case...

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by CTD

How much media did Porches wins give compared to Audi's fights with Peugeot!?.

Manufactures will ONLY go to Lmp2 if they can win overall!, otherwise there is no PR in the victories.

Manufacturers are forbidden from entering LMP2:

"b/ "LE MANS" PROTOTYPE 2 ("LM"P2): open or closed (*)
car, destined only to privateers."

[hcl123]

Then a transition petrol LMP1...

OTOH i believe Capelo statement is only pure misinformation (bluff).

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by CTD

This is too much!
Do you really thing you know better than a works Audi driver!
Seriously, how old are you!, you remind me, of me when i was at age 12-13, because you see conspiracy everywhere!.

Believe me, sometimes the majority is right, and this is the case...

Much older than you... and instead of trying to insult... get informed.. search/google... see the link i presented... don't be naive.
[BMW is going right against the "die hard" majority in all the line... can you guess why ?]

[hcl123]

Capelo :

There is a lot of talk about hybrid tech,but actually Audi is not interessed to follow this way and I think the diesel will soon also be set aside for new projects that are at studio.

Actually Capelo in his 'bluff' seems to confirm that 2011 Audi will be on diesel... "will soon be set aside"... but 'not now'(?)... otherwise what would be the danger of stating that it will be a petrol... if the majority of sentiment is that its better even against all evidence of contrary ? ...

.. and also he seems to confirm that 2011 Audi will not be a hybrid (meaning NO electric motorization - and not excluding energy recuperation and electric drive of engine auxiliaries)... "Audi is not interested" (??)... is too peremptory for my taste, specially when its clear that hybrid is the future, and a clear marketing trump (but can make sense, +10l fuel tank is better than the electric motorization potential of 2011 rules).

[gwyllion]

@hcl123: Please stick to the topic of this thread: the R18 which Audi will race in 2011. Capello is referring to the future LMP rules (see here for ACO meeting minutes on that subject). With the proposed minimum weight of 775 kg, a small turbocharged petrol engine is the way to go, because a diesel engine will be too heavy.

Moreover, other Audi people have said that Audi is more interested in lighter cars instead of a hybrid drivetrain. However, if the rules require a hybrid drivetrain in order to be successful, they will surely use it.

[Félix]

No minimum weight change for this set of rules because the ACO feels that would one factor too many to equalise; at least that was the news in July. It would help if there was an official rulebook out to rely on...

The info we have is that Audi might go for a coupe because they feel open tops no longer give quicker pitstops, that they don't seem interested in hybrids because they don't sell one and that some claim a diesel V6 is coming whilst others claim it's a turbo 4. And there's the front tire size speculation too. In the end, we won't know for sure until Audi tells us and everything on top of that is speculation: your OPINION is as good as anyone else's so don't be pushy. Thanks.

[gwyllion]

BTW yesterday the Volkswagen group announced that they will invest heavily in the development of hybrid and electric cars.

At €27.7 billion, the Group will spend most of the total amount to be invested in property, plant and equipment in the Automotive Division on modernizing and extending the product range of all its brands. The main focus will be on new vehicles, successor models and derivatives in almost all vehicle classes based on modular technology. This will allow the Volkswagen Group to systematically continue its model rollout with a view to tapping new markets and segments. In powertrain production, new generations of engines will be launched with enhanced performance, fuel consumption and emission levels. The Group will continue driving forward the development of hybrid and electric motors in particular.

source: Volkswagen Group to invest €51.6 billion in the coming five years

[gwyllion]

I just found this photoshop of R15+ with a roof:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5779142_n.jpg

[Mal]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I just found this photoshop of R15+ with a roof:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5779142_n.jpg

Is that an Augeot or a Peudi?

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

@hcl123: Please stick to the topic of this thread: the R18 which Audi will race in 2011. Capello is referring to the future LMP rules (see here for ACO meeting minutes on that subject). With the proposed minimum weight of 775 kg, a small turbocharged petrol engine is the way to go, because a diesel engine will be too heavy.

Moreover, other Audi people have said that Audi is more interested in lighter cars instead of a hybrid drivetrain. However, if the rules require a hybrid drivetrain in order to be successful, they will surely use it.

What are you complaining about ?... by your own post i've been more on topic than anybody else. How do you design a car with prospects of scalability for the future ?

SO... the future that is purposed is a "communistic" view of everybody on a small petrol engine with close to motorcycle weight vehicle...

AND IT WILL BE IMPOSED... it must be arbitrary, otherwise it will not stick... because even BMW seems to demonstrate(for civil use) that diesel is neither too heavy or too underpowered with small volume displacements(1.5L for a M3 !?).

(c'mon?... even Audi stated that its V12 aluminum diesel was only 20Kg heavier than an equivalent petrol one - had they opted for petrol)

So why not Audi go with the schizophrenic spree and opt for a petrol for 2011 !? ... only if Pug weren't for sure on diesel, because then the sole contender on diesel would have a great theoretical advantage( but nothing that rules can't twist-- in 2007 ALMS the R10(995Kg) run with 200Kg(75kg penalty) more and with much smaller restrictors than the Penske Porsche(775Kg) which had a reduction/benefit from the original 850Kg, yet Audi won most of the races - so in 2008 ALMS diesel got even smaller restrictores and Porsche larger ones.

My point is this rule twisting on middle of seasons, is what must make a good deal of thinking about constructing a car around a diesel engine... lets get clear: - ITS NOT WANTED, no matter if superclearly superior(isn't it schizophrenic ?)... and of course Audi is not immune.. neither is Capelo a foul.

ACO ruining the sport ?... way to go ACO!

[Tim the Grey]

Whatever, I like it...
So, petrol or diesel?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Whatever, I like it...
So, petrol or diesel?

Capello says Diesel .
I think Audi got burnt with the original R15 with there innovation, and therefor starts with a safe spot with a diesel engine in a conservative design that they know will last and be quick.

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Mal

Is that an Augeot or a Peudi?

Could it be the R18 ?



It doesn't seem fake in any way and it must be recent, because the R15+ base its recent.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I just found this photoshop of R15+ with a roof:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5779142_n.jpg

Wow, whoever made that did a pretty good job!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by hcl123

Could it be the R18 ?



It doesn't seem fake in any way and it must be recent, because the R15+ base its recent.

Tell me your joking...
It's very clearly the roof of the 908, and as you can see in the corner, it's made by Endurance-Crea, who photoshop cars!

[Adam43]

ADMIN NOTE:
The thread had been pruned. Lets stick to the topic, we are getting tired of the complaints about people ruining threads by trotting out the same all boring stuff.

There are separate threads for the rules, but it is selfish to make every thread topic the same subject. This is isn't censorship, but the tiresome off topic posts are.

[chernaudi]

I think that Dindo may've dropped some pretty big hints for speculation in his interview. I don't think that Audi is ready to use KERS as they don't have a production hybird car yet (though the Q5 hybrid is nearly ready for production, and the Audi E-tron vehicles are definitnely very close to what a future production variant will be like).

Considering that Audi and Peugeot have apparantley pushed for the smaller engines for 2011, they feel that they can reap an advatange still with the diesel engines. Remember, the ACO says that LMP1 and LMP2 cars will have a minimum weight of 900kgs next year, as Peugeot have stated in their 90X PR. So Audi and Peugeot may still go with diesel engines because any gain in the weight of the engines will be canceled out by the ballast that they'd have to carry, though the ballast can be used to adjust weight distribution.

Of course, we haven't heard any 100% set in stone regs from the ACO, but obviously Audi and Peugeot know the basics as the 90X has been seemingly a reality for a while and that the R18 has possibly started testing recently for all we know--no spy shots of the R18 exist, so either it hasn't been testing for long enough for someone to figure out where it's been tested, or Audi have done all if any recent testing at a privately owned VAG test track.

Dindo's comments might be fairly close to the truth, but can also be a smoke screen--he is an Audi factory driver, after all. However, December will come soon and we'll know more about the R18 then when Audi unveils it, unless some spy shots surface and Audi has to pull a Peugeot with the 90X.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I don't think that Audi is ready to use KERS as they don't have a production hybird car yet.

The Volkswagen group already has the hybrid Touareg/Cayenne in production.

[chernaudi]

Is there a hybrid Q7, which is a big Toureg/Cayanne? No, aside from a concept car that Audi made in 2006. Audi themselves have no KERS or hybrid equiped road car right now--the Q5 Hybrid that Fouritude recently test drove at Inglostadt as a test mule, and though close to production, is still a while off. Right now, the all-electric E-tron cars excluded (and even those are pre-production prototypes), only the Q5, the A4(from which the Q5 is based) and the A8 may soon get a KERS system, and Dindo said in that interveiw that KERS won't at first at least be standard equipment on the R18, though that can be a smokescreen...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Is there a hybrid Q7, which is a big Toureg/Cayanne? No, aside from a concept car that Audi made in 2006.

That is because the Q7 is based on the previous generation Touareg/Cayenne.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi themselves have no KERS or hybrid equiped road car right now--the Q5 Hybrid that Fouritude recently test drove at Inglostadt as a test mule, and though close to production, is still a while off. Right now, the all-electric E-tron cars excluded (and even those are pre-production prototypes), only the Q5, the A4(from which the Q5 is based) and the A8 may soon get a KERS system.

The production of the hybrid A8 and Q5 will start in 2011. So by the Le Mans 24 hours, the situation might be different.

[TRuss]

Judging by Audi's Etron concept cars, Audi definitely seems more interested in a pure electric which the initial 2014 proposals seem to allow for. Dindo was most likely referring to 2014 and on when he mentioned Audi trying something new. He was not talking about 2011 which is what we should be talking about. Whether the R18 will be diesel or petrol remains to be seen and are the only realistic options for 2011. Hybrid and turbos are other variables. But let's please stop talking about hydrogen, LPG or whatever else until about this time 2013 and onward.

Recap of things to discuss. 2011 R18. Open or coupe? Diesel or Petrol? And any other hybrid turbo variables.

[chernaudi]

The only realisitic add-on that Audi will have on the R18 may be KERS, but that probably won't happen until maybe 2012. In 2011, as Dindo may be suggesting, the car will be a V8 or V6 (he didn't say which) diesel. Audi may use a KERS equiped R18 as a marketing tool, but that seems to be dependant on Q5 and A8 hybrid sales next year, especially in North America if Audi AG and AoA can get funding sorted for an ALMS program, especially if the Q5 and the A8 are sold as diesel hybrids in NA, but that's not overly likely--in 2011, you can get a diesel engine or a hybrid on the Q5 and the A8 possibly (Audi wants to expand their diesel range in NA next year), but probably not a diesel hybrid yet.

If the hybrid A8 and Q5 are successful, look for the R18 to run KERS in 2012 and to test it next year, but I doubt that Audi will run KERS for 2011.

[gwyllion]

According to http://www.lemanslive.com/24h-mans/2...jours/?lang=en the launch of the R18 is planned for December 10 and Audi has already started track testing its new car.