Crossle (Complete Series - 1957 -69)

[allenbrown]

Great work Alan. Welcome!

[jjordan]

Used to race against a Jim Bandy here in the SCCA Mid-West Div in the late 60's/early 70's. He was from St. Louis as I remember, he used to team with Bill Johnson in the Spirit of Kansas City team. I'll will see what i can dig out.

[freddy-quick]

Hi,

I can confirm that the ex Saunders car is in Germany - with me, purchased from Frank Nowak in 2004.

For pictures go to www.sc-motorsport.com/collection/crosslé-15f

Stephan

[Mike Winn]

I have some information on the Crossle 18F F-2 car brought over to the US., by the Factory to race in FB by the factory driver. It won a race at Sebring and was then sold to a U.S. Driver, who raced it for a short time and retired it. I purchased it last year and am restoring it now for Vintage F2 class in CVAR. It is second in line to a Merlyn MK21 FB, so may not see the track for a year or two. I am looking forward to seeing how it does against more established marks.
Mike Winn

[DashCaptain]

Mike,

good to hear regarding the 18F. My good friend Roger Barr was the original factory driver of that car and is still quite alive and as cranky as ever. He might be able to give you some history on the car. I have pictures I can supply via email of Roger driving the car. The car originally had a Brian Hart engine with 4 valves per cylinder, only reason I know this is my father bought the engine and for his 14F which I have C14F/68/38 and subsequently destroyed it in a hill climb crash. The car had been shunted at Lime rock when roger was driving and the pictures show John Crossle and Roger putting back together for the race.

Brian Nelson the factory driver from Europe won Sebring with the car and then it disagreed. I knew Rick Pinch had it from one of the Crossle factory news letters as well as one of the 12F cars. Glad to hear she will be raced again.

If you wish to contact me do so at hamilton.donaldson@gmail.com or my phone when I am in the US is 954-336-9911. I will be happy to supply scans of the 18F with Roger driving if you so desire.

Regards,

Hamilton Donaldson
Crossle 14F C14F/68/38

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Mike Winn

I have some information on the Crossle 18F F-2 car brought over to the US., by the Factory to race in FB by the factory driver. It won a race at Sebring and was then sold to a U.S. Driver, who raced it for a short time and retired it. I purchased it last year and am restoring it now for Vintage F2 class in CVAR. It is second in line to a Merlyn MK21 FB, so may not see the track for a year or two. I am looking forward to seeing how it does against more established marks.
Mike Winn

Mike - only just spotted this! Very interested to know about one of the 18Fs staying in the US. There were two built and their histories are intertwined. Do you know who owned your car first in the US?

[mdwracer]

Just FYI, the 1st Crossle was built in 1957 and from car 1 to the 15 F series in 1969 , all the cars were given chassis numbers showing the overall sequence...
This has a total sequence of 42 cars from all formula cars and sports racers and I have most of all these cars documented in my records.

Can we make THIS thread about all cars up through the 15F (this means 42 cars total -formula and sports racer)

Example (my car is a 1966 9S)
Chassis # C9S6628
"C" is for Crossle, "9S" is the model, "66" is production year , and "28" means that this car was the 28th car ever produced.

The following cars from the 1969 16F onward had different chassis identification:
Example C16F691 . This is all the same except for "1" is for car one in that model. I think 16F's and onward should have individual pages and ALL the early cars should be in this thread...
Thoughts??

Mike Winebrenner

[John Turner]

Mike, thanks for the clarification; I think, since only 42 cars built in all, we can embrace the whole lot on one thread, so I'll change the heading. Hope that you will share your info with us on here.

I'd be personally very interested to learn how many of them were built as sports cars prior to 1960 and with what engine capacities.

[eamonn ledwidge]

You will find complete information on cars built in this period contained in the recently launched book - ‘Hidden Glory’, The history of the Crosslé Car Co Ltd. Some great photos of Mike Winebrenner’s ‘as original’ 9S there also.

5 Years in research and preparation, it's a must for the serious enthusiast and historian. Put it on your Christmas list. Available now from Crosslé Car Co Ltd.- £60.00, plus postage. Details on the website:crossle.co.uk

[mdwracer]

Here is a list of everyones information I have compiled:

MK1 1957 #1

MK2 1958 #2
MK2 1958 #3

MK3 1959 #4
MK3 1959 #5
MK3 1959 #6

4F 1960 C4F-60-7
4F 1961 C4F-61-8

5S 1963 C5S-63-9 J Crossle 1500 pushrod
5S 1963 C5S-63-10 L'Amie 1500 Cov. Climax
5S 1964 C5S-64-11
5S 1964 C5S-64-12
5S 1964 C5S-64-13
5S 1964 C5S-64-17 Reid 1600 T/C

6F 1964 C6F-64-14
6F 1964 C6F-64-15
6F 1964 C6F-64-16
6F 1965 C6F-65-21
6F 1965 C6F-65-22
6F 1965 C6F-65-23
6F 1965 C6F-65-24

7S 1964 C7S-64-18 Wingfield 1600 T/C
7S 1965 C7S-65-19 Hughes 3.5 Olds car
7S 1965 C7S-65-20 L'Amie 4.2 V8 car , 1966 Kinnane TT entrant
7S 1965 C7S-65-25 Cooney 1600 T/C

8F 1965 C8F-65-26 V8 Formula car

9S 1965 C9S-65-27 Harrison 3.5 Buick hillclimb car
9S 1966 C9S-66-28 L'Amie BMW 1966 TT Peter Gethin/Derek Bennett
9S 1966 C9S-66-29 Wingfield BMW
9S 1966 C9S-66-30? Hunt extra chassis

10F 1966 (redeveloped C8F-65-26) This could be C10F-66-30 but probably chassis 30 may be the extra 1966 9S chassis

11F 1967 C11F-67-31

12F 1967 C12F-67-32
12F 1967 C12F-67-33
12F 1967 C12F-67-34
12F 1967 C12F-67-35
12F 1967 C12F-67-36
12F 1968 C12F-68-37

14F 1968 C14F-68-38
14F 1969 C14F-69-41

15F 1968 C15F-68-39
15F 1968 C15F-68-40
15F 1970 C15F-70-42

16F Formula Fords , Crossle now numbers sequentially within the models
C16F-69-1 then C16F-69-2 and so on...

[DashCaptain]

Hello,

That is a pretty accurate listing. The only exception is there is a 3rd 14F that was an odd ball car. This is owned by the Hutchinsons in the UK and is C14F/69/42 which is a repeat serial number. It was a factory car that was campaigned in the UK then came to the US for a while and had two owners and then returned to the UK.

Regards,

Hamilton Donaldson
Crossle 14F C14F/68/38

[David Irwin]

MDWRACER,

The 6F that I have with chassis tag states C8/F65/22. For reasons stated earlier in this thread. This was the first Crossle shipped to the US for Formula C.

Thanks for preparing the list. David Irwin

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by eamonn ledwidge

You will find complete information on cars built in this period contained in the recently launched book - ‘Hidden Glory’, The history of the Crosslé Car Co Ltd. Some great photos of Mike Winebrenner’s ‘as original’ 9S there also.

5 Years in research and preparation, it's a must for the serious enthusiast and historian. Put it on your Christmas list. Available now from Crosslé Car Co Ltd.- £60.00, plus postage. Details on the website:crossle.co.uk

The book is very good, Shaun White's lent me his copy to peruse. I'm up to about 1970 so far, excellent read!

[tomclaridge]

CROSSLE 14F #C14F.69.42 owned by tomclaridge@sbcglobal.net from 1999 to 2003(USA) bought from John Crossle(N. Ire) and sold to Patrick Donnelly(WI/USA).

[tomclaridge]

I have owned two Crossle Cars: C14F.69.42(FB) bought from John Crossle himself in 1999 and sold in 2003. John Crossle told me as reported in the book "30 Years of Winning" that there just 2 each 14Fs built and he certified and sold me 14F.69.42.
The 2nd car is a C9S.66.27 a sports racer built in 1965 for David Harrison with Buick alloy V8 engine(only one built so) and again recorded in "30 Years". Mr Harrison kept the car into the 1970s and sold it to a John Molds who raced and restored the car for many years. I bought the car from Mr. Moulds in 2008 and restored the car to it's original Buick alloy V8 engine and retain the car today a
3 owner car. This car also was certified by Mr. John Crossle as the car in the book!
Tom Claridge tomclaridge@sbcglobal.net 1-510-697-2414

[allenbrown]

Welcome Tom

[DashCaptain]

Originally Posted by tomclaridge

I have owned two Crossle Cars: C14F.69.42(FB) bought from John Crossle himself in 1999 and sold in 2003. John Crossle told me as reported in the book "30 Years of Winning" that there just 2 each 14Fs built and he certified and sold me 14F.69.42.
The 2nd car is a C9S.66.27 a sports racer built in 1965 for David Harrison with Buick alloy V8 engine(only one built so) and again recorded in "30 Years". Mr Harrison kept the car into the 1970s and sold it to a John Molds who raced and restored the car for many years. I bought the car from Mr. Moulds in 2008 and restored the car to it's original Buick alloy V8 engine and retain the car today a
3 owner car. This car also was certified by Mr. John Crossle as the car in the book!
Tom Claridge tomclaridge@sbcglobal.net 1-510-697-2414

Hi Tom,

Just as a note on the 14F cars. I have the first of the 14F cars C14F/69/38. I have the original sales receipt for the car and the car. The second 14F belongs to Jim Mederer who purchased the car new from Roger Barr in 1969. Her still own the car and has it on his living room wall.

I know of your car, the Huthchinson's in the UK own the car and what the 30 years of racing history says but the car is not one of the two that were sold in the US by Roger Barr when he was the importer for Crossle. Roger had confirmed Mederer's car long ago and I had tracked it down and have photos with the data plate.

The 12F cars ended with C12F67/37 which has turned up after auction here in the US in the UK up for sale.

Regards,

Hamilton Donaldson
Crossle 14F C14F/68/38

[mdwracer]

So am I understanding this correct that there are two chassis 42's...
C15F-70-42 Fred Saunders Rover V8 car now living in Europe
C14F-69-42 which is currently owned by John Hutchinson...Who owned this car when new??

Mike Winebrenner

[DashCaptain]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Mike - only just spotted this! Very interested to know about one of the 18Fs staying in the US. There were two built and their histories are intertwined. Do you know who owned your car first in the US?

Gentlemen,

Just as an FYI this car that won Sebring was first raced by Roger Barr. I have pictures of him racing it that I got from Roger. Mike if you want scans of those pics I will be happy to supply. This was a factory car and after Roger had raced it, the photos show John Crossle and Roger at Lime Rock or Thompson. I will have to check with Roger to confirm but it shows them rebuilding the suspension after a shunt with the car.

Brian Nelson raced it in Sebring winning Sebring. The car was owned for quite some time by Rick Pinch

Regards,

Ham Donaldson
Crossle 14F C14F/68/38 the first 14F

[DashCaptain]

Originally Posted by mdwracer

So am I understanding this correct that there are two chassis 42's...
C15F-70-42 Fred Saunders Rover V8 car now living in Europe
C14F-69-42 which is currently owned by John Hutchinson...Who owned this car when new??

Mike Winebrenner

That is correct there are two serial number 42 cars but different models. Roger Barr sold the 2 14F in the US the first to my father Malcolm Donaldson. I still have the car and the original sales receipt for C14F/68/38 and the second to Jim Mederer in Anaheim California C14F/69/41 which resides on his living room wall, I have pictures of that car. These cars had the Vegantune engine as advertised. The biggest difference is in the half safest the 42 car has modern half shafts where as the original two had triumph TR6 half shafts. The Hutchinson own that car in the UK and was a factory car that was campaigned by Crossle in the UK as far as I knew. It came over here to the US with Tom Claridge and the Donnelly and then went back with the Hutchinson's . Arnie might have a better idea but the car had FIA paperwork.

Regards,

Ham Donaldson