"Schumi is not the best" - JV

renaultbel · 28 Sep 2001, 16:52 (Ref:152760)

Jacques Villeneuve doesn't believe it's fair to say that Michael Schumacher is as good as Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna because his team mate is never allowed to race.
"Schumacher's done some great things but there is a difference," he said.

"Everyone says he is better than Senna and Prost but I disagree on that because Senna and Prost were fighting against each other - whereas Michael doesn't have a team mate he is fighting against. So he gets all the wins and the championships instead of half of them. People forget to look at that."

f1grandprixshop · 28 Sep 2001, 16:56 (Ref:152764)

i think one of the best way to show you're better than your team mate is thru the Qualifying session...

BBKing · 28 Sep 2001, 17:13 (Ref:152773)

Schumacher is not the best compared to Senna and Prost. That is something I have been saying for a long time. That is the reason why some driver worshipers think I am not Schumacher fan.

Having Irvine and Barrichello as teammates does not proof anything. They are very second class drivers contracted to be Schumacher slaves.

But he is the best among the current drivers... Wait a minute... WAS... Formula Juan is in his way to take it over from here.

**Bononi** · 28 Sep 2001, 17:36 (Ref:152788)

King of the hill...

paulzinho · 28 Sep 2001, 19:54 (Ref:152874)

...was Senna

racer10 · 28 Sep 2001, 19:59 (Ref:152880)

I think Jaqy V makes a good arguement. I have never heard it put that way, and thats one thing he has said that makes sense. I wish F1 had what we had in the states. An International Race of Champions. Equal cars, different tracks, the best drivers from the previous year. Although this series in the US doesnt seem to have the prestige it once had, it would pretty much settle the arguement who is the best.

R · 28 Sep 2001, 20:05 (Ref:152882)

Jacques is right on the money!!

Quote:

Originally posted by racer10
I have never heard it put that way

You haven't been reading my posts!

Nicholas · 28 Sep 2001, 20:22 (Ref:152891)

I have to say he's a bit biased

Alan Jones · 28 Sep 2001, 21:04 (Ref:152933)

Now this is one area where The Big Schu is indeed better than Senna or prost, that is, his ability to negotiate a contract where he is clearly number 1.

Don K · 28 Sep 2001, 21:12 (Ref:152940)

Quote:

Originally posted by AlanJones
Now this is one area where The Big Schu is indeed better than Senna or prost, that is, his ability to negotiate a contract where he is clearly number 1.

What about his ability to choose teams that for some mysterious reason start getting better the longer he drives for them?

Alan Jones · 28 Sep 2001, 21:15 (Ref:152942)

Good point Donk

ljakse · 28 Sep 2001, 23:09 (Ref:153045)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
What about his ability to choose teams that for some mysterious reason start getting better the longer he drives for them?

As for benetton it's simple - Briatore bought Ligier just to get him self the best engine that there is, as they have already had good chasis.
And, for Ferrari...well, there are two interesting details:
1. I remember I've read something about Mr. Agnelli (spelling) - chairman of FIAT - saying, after TGF's first (rather dissapointing) year in Ferrari, that if the team doesn't get there @sses together, he is gonna shut'em down - without any respect to history and tradition. And the other one (which actually works for Benetton aas well while TGF was with'em): was there any season without suspicion of cheating?

BBKing · 29 Sep 2001, 01:12 (Ref:153100)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
What about his ability to choose teams that for some mysterious reason start getting better the longer he drives for them?

That only reinforces the theory that Byrnie is a very good designer. Schumacher has never won a championship in a car that was not tailor designed for him by Rory. That by itself is a huge advantage in his favor against second class teammates he has had.

Gt_R · 29 Sep 2001, 01:29 (Ref:153102)

Hmm...sure, i don't think its fair to say Michael is as good as, or not, to Senna and Prost...but its simply because its always unfair to draw direct comparison from different times.

And erm...it's strange how JV said that considering what he demanded from BAR with Zonta...

The few outstanding teammates Michael had are Rubens, Eddie, Johnny and Jos... and how many victories did they give to Michael in total?
22? I don't think so.

Sure, we can say, Michael didn't have a teammate he is fighting against... but 2 points to note.

1)But so what if the 2 drivers in Minardi are fighting each others... Alonso is still 99% of the times quicker than his teammate, something which is similar to what we see in Ferrari now, that Rubens is only occasionally on Michael's pace. How many times had Rubens finished 2nd behind Michael this year? So if michael is quicker, he should just drop his pace to "fight with Rubens"?

2)But look at the fair fight between the 2 MInardi drivers, did they take any wins? Eerrm...nope... And sure, Senna had to fight Prost, Prost had to fight Senna... but they HAD the clearly best car of a mile at their disposal, that they do not really have to fight anybody else. Sure, Michael doesnt fight his teammate, but every year till 2000, he had to fight 2 drivers having a car as good as his at least, although more often than not they had a better car...

I don't know if others see the point in this, people tend to forget them too... one thing that we can say for sure is that Michael had made the best of his carreer in Formula One, which none of the other drivers on the current grid had ever done...

I wouldnt mention Michael in the same breathe as Senna and Prost, but neither would i mention Jacques in the same breathe as Michael, Senna and Prost.

JeremySmith · 29 Sep 2001, 01:51 (Ref:153106)

I think that JV is full of ****, and should worry about his failing BAR.. It is very unfair to compare Michael to Senna or Prost. JV has the nerve to talk about team mates and how they are treated, well what about Zonta who was made to feel like dirt while he was driving for BAR. give it a break JV your days are numbered. Michael will kick your tail end any day of the week. And he would do it driving the same piece of pooh that you do!

neutral · 29 Sep 2001, 09:36 (Ref:153169)

Quote:

How many times had Rubens finished 2nd behind Michael this year? So if michael is quicker, he should just drop his pace to "fight with Rubens"?

Very good point indeed.

R · 29 Sep 2001, 11:10 (Ref:153200)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jersound
give it a break JV your days are numbered. Michael will kick your tail end any day of the week.

Like he did at Estoril 96? Jerez 97?

f1manoz · 29 Sep 2001, 11:25 (Ref:153206)

JV is just reiterating the opinion that many out there in cyber-F1land already hold. TGF is the best of this generation, but comparisons are difficult to make, and shouldn't be made.

As for JV himself, maybe if he kept quiet and concentrated on getting the car right, he wouldn't be so far back in practice!

R · 29 Sep 2001, 11:34 (Ref:153215)

See my response in "Friday 2nd practice" as to why he was so far back in practice.

LucaBadoer · 29 Sep 2001, 11:48 (Ref:153224)

Quote:

Originally posted by renaultbel
Jacques Villeneuve doesn't believe it's fair to say that Michael Schumacher is as good as Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna because his team mate is never allowed to race.

Just because Jacques ius always beaten by Olivier...

Gt_R · 29 Sep 2001, 11:49 (Ref:153225)

"Like he did at Estoril 96? Jerez 97?"

If you want to point that out...may i direct you to the whole season from 2000 to 2001, just for a start?

Even JPM, the man who came into F1 shouting that he can beat Michael anytime, toned down and showed Michael the deserved respect as a driver... claiming the need to learn from Michael's racing intelligence~

R · 29 Sep 2001, 13:40 (Ref:153257)

Sure... Michael is top of the ladder of the current crop, no doubt about it, just hope he stays in F1 long enough for JPM to knock him down from there!

Jacques not being able to compete with TGF last year and now may - just may - have something to do with the difference in quality between their cars?

And since you're bringing that up - does Silverstone 2000 ring any bells?

Gt_R · 29 Sep 2001, 15:53 (Ref:153295)

R...don't you see the point of things?

You pointed out Estoril 96. And tell me there isnt a difference in quality of cars??? And you actually noticed it for the past two years when Michael had the better equipment? Very handy memory and observation..

Michael is the best driver out there in F1 now. I think this is being now the truth. JPM is a rookie. He has great potentials. Sure. He might beat Michael in the future. JPM is the future generation. Michael is now. Senna, Fangio are the past.

Try putting Lauda in the Jaguar now and if Eddie beat him, does that mean that Irvine is greater than Lauda? No!~ The point i'm trying to drive is that Michael is also a human. There would come a point when he is no longer at his best, often due to age. Being beaten then doesnt discredit him as the most successful drivers of all time, and one of the best drivers ever.

Its like comparing Miss Universe who is now in her late 50s, and say she is ugly as a woman just because she's compared to the average teenager on the street when the young teen is at her prime...

R · 29 Sep 2001, 17:35 (Ref:153328)

Well, beauty comes from within...

The reason I brought up Estoril was that Jacques overtook TGF on the outside (and it was in response to Jersounds "JV your days are numbered. Michael will kick your tail end any day of the week"). So forgive me for dragging that one up. Besides the 96 Ferrari was fast but unreliable. The BAR was just unreliable. The difference between the 96 Williams and Ferrari was much less than the difference between the 2000 Ferrari and BAR.

So in response... yes, I do see the point of things. But I also think that both yours and my perception of things is coloured by whoever we support!

Inigo Montoya · 29 Sep 2001, 19:21 (Ref:153364)

Another pitiful performance by jacques - absolutely spanked by Panis. What a loser!

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