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Old 5 Feb 2008, 05:04 (Ref:2121317)   #1
johnny yuma
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johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Diesels, torque and power

Recently had a less than enthralling 3 day drive in a Ford Mondeo 2 litre turbo (weight 1604kg). Off the line the thing wouldn't pull your best mate off your girlfriend.Then it went a bit smartly from 2500rpm to 4750rpm at which point the governor kicks in.Spirited not.Where is the 320nm of torque hiding? Or are my long held theories about torque producing acceleration wrong? Only with its six speed auto and a very low first gear does this thing get away at all.Diesels are bunkum.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 08:32 (Ref:2121383)   #2
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Try an Audi A4 2lt Turbo.Prefferably the 170 .
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 10:14 (Ref:2121476)   #3
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by johnny yuma
Diesels are bunkum.
Sounds like you are fishing for an argument, you have no basis to criticise if you have only driven one example, how many different petrol cars have you driven?
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 10:45 (Ref:2121508)   #4
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Originally Posted by terence bower
Try an Audi A4 2lt Turbo.Prefferably the 170 .
And then when you've got that tractor out of the way try a decent diesel, like maybe the new model BMW 320d.

And if you're still unsure, have a go in a 335d.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 12:34 (Ref:2121580)   #5
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petrol drivers drive diesels wrong. if you drive it properly, the power is there.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 13:35 (Ref:2121626)   #6
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A lot of the new generation TDs perform as well as petrol engines. The manual 6 sp TD Golf doesn't hang about its as fast as the old GTI. They may loose out initially but put the clock over the quarter mile !
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 13:44 (Ref:2121633)   #7
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Originally Posted by bella
petrol drivers drive diesels wrong. if you drive it properly, the power is there.
I've got a Fabia Vrs and that scoots along nicely. I find that when I drive a petrol now I'm forever trying to find the power band - they can't deliver the same "wahey" factor as a punchy TD. I'm not going back to petrol power
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 14:00 (Ref:2121645)   #8
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it's not the same without a black smoke cloak when you hit the go-pedal either! plus 6 years on my tdi engine still does the manufacturer quoted top speed plus without batting an eyelid. i'd be surprised if many petrol engines did that!
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 14:27 (Ref:2121660)   #9
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by garcon
And then when you've got that tractor out of the way try a decent diesel, like maybe the new model BMW 320d.

And if you're still unsure, have a go in a 335d.
Tractor? Perhaps it's the area I live in but the 320 is no match,as for the 335,is that not in a different capacity,it is bigger than a 2ltr is'nt it?
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 14:33 (Ref:2121664)   #10
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They can take a bit of getting used to,I swore I'd never have one[the accountant insisted!] it is a bit odd using 3rd instead of second at road junctions etc but driving at 100mph on the trip to Spa/Nurburging at for it to be knocking out 47mpg,I'm glad I got it.2nd new one in two and a half years.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 15:09 (Ref:2121683)   #11
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I never had any trouble with torque on my 135bhp Mondeo Duratorque, it must be the way you drove it.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 17:57 (Ref:2121808)   #12
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My wife recently changed her Golf VR6 for a Golf Mk4 GT TDi 150. This is a great car, quicker than the VR6 without a doubt and regularly does 50mpg. Compare the torque figures with petrol cars and you can see why the Golf is so quick, it has more torque than a Boxster S.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 18:22 (Ref:2121837)   #13
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Cant wait for the new Audi R8,V12 diesel? 0-60 sub 4sec's plus possibly the best economy from a car like this ever.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 20:45 (Ref:2121937)   #14
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[quote=terence bower] driving at 100mph on the trip to Spa/Nurburging quote]

Disgusting ! you "youngsters" should be banned
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 21:28 (Ref:2121968)   #15
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touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
you shouldn't drive a diesel anywhere near it's limiter.

I drive a Ford TDCi engined car and changing up a gear about 2600rpm does fine for me. when the revs drop back down the torque is right there ready to go. Actually thats the most it goes to with me usually as 70mph in 5th is 2600rpm.
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Old 5 Feb 2008, 22:26 (Ref:2122012)   #16
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dj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by terence bower
Cant wait for the new Audi R8,V12 diesel? 0-60 sub 4sec's plus possibly the best economy from a car like this ever.
possibly the dullest supercar ever made as well, if you want a supercar you want it to bellow and shout, not sound like a lorry.

but on the diesel note i have driven a skoda fabia VRS, dull but comftorble and it shifts when you give it some stick, feels like it has a lot more than 130bhp however though i dont like diesels, i find them dull.

i like to rev the nuts of a car, hence why i like my car more, although i look like a chav when i give it some beans you rev the nuts off it until the engine internals have burst through the bonnet and are dancing around.

as diesels go in terms of performance they are imo even if not better than a lot of petrol cars nowadays but when it comes to driving pleasure, the petrol car wins every single time and when it comes to excitement as well, you just have to look at peugeot and audi's LMP racers compared to the petrol LMP2's.
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Old 6 Feb 2008, 07:54 (Ref:2122204)   #17
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Dullest? I am refering to the road car not the LM victor.Fantastic road /track day car with enough exhaust noise to let you know it's coming but not as much as a 430 that will not pass niose testing at most UK circuits.
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Old 6 Feb 2008, 08:16 (Ref:2122216)   #18
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touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Tell you what, I'd need to be persuaded to go back to a petrol engine of the same capacity as my diesel.

A diesel is so easy to drive, I've had a few gutless petrols before and you certainly knew you'd driven home from work!
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Old 6 Feb 2008, 09:52 (Ref:2122280)   #19
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the only time i really know i have a diesel is when cleaning the layers of oil and soot off the back of the car, and when i put the fuel in at the pump. 3 years of driving a diesel and doing everything a petrol engine would (but cheaper), and honestly? i'll never have a petrol again if i can avoid it. the price difference over in europe alone on diesel is enough to pursuade me of that.
ok, so your small gutless standard superminis aren't a great example of a diesel, but they're often not the best for petrol either. there's some substantial technology and environmental advances going on in diesel powered engines at the moment i guess in the same way petrol had a bit of a revolution when they developed unleaded and catal...catly.. cat converters.
i'm proud to take my diesel around the nurburgring. the only reason it's slow is because i can't afford the hundreds of euros for a tow home and the uninsured damage!
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Old 6 Feb 2008, 10:16 (Ref:2122298)   #20
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i like to rev the nuts of a car, hence why i like my car more, although i look like a chav when i give it some beans you rev the nuts off it until the engine internals have burst through the bonnet and are dancing around.
That's what I dislike about petrols now - I'm revving the nuts off the damn thing and I'm not getting any appreciable response from the engine beyond an increase in volume (I suspect a petrol engine with a turbo would be ok - not tried that). A change of cams in a petrol engine can help (our rally car for example pulls a lot better since it had uprated cams put in it) but on a road car that's not really an option. Diesels have the power to hand - they may not rev highly but the power comes in a lot earlier and with a more appreciable surge and that's good for the grins

So to conclude - petrols are dull (unless they're tuned*) and turbo diesels rock. I will not be buying a petrol again - I can see no benefits.

* By tuned I mean properly tuned - not just an air filter and bean can exhaust combo fitted to a woefully underpowered hatchback sporting 3 tons of bodykit that acts as a large airbrake.
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Old 6 Feb 2008, 14:51 (Ref:2122488)   #21
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Apart from more MPG, at the moment in Spain we have the cheapest diesel( I think) fuel in the majority of the EU . Petrol and diesel is about the same at approx 1 euro a litre or less off the motorways. Its all those Spanish oilfields
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Old 6 Feb 2008, 19:27 (Ref:2122696)   #22
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Talking of tuning,anyone else had thier diesel chipped,I've just had my A4 done,it is now up from 170 to 203,torque is up by 32%,BMW 335--no chance,all for the princly sum of £412!!.Only problem is,it doe'snt like damp roads so now the traction control is left off but it is now a HUGE amount of fun watching the little boys in thier Intake "Tuned" Rover 220s etc just get smaller and smaller.
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Old 7 Feb 2008, 09:13 (Ref:2123083)   #23
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Sounds like someone else who hasnt got the faintest idea how to drive a diesel

My wife has the 115hp version of the Mondeo and I can assure you it goes rather nicely thankyou..

I have a Saab 3.0 diesel and that goes like the preverbial **** off a shovel and will still give me far superior mpg to a petrol...

If driver correctly diesels are far less work than a petrol and point to point can be every bit as quick as a petrol.

Not to mention towing a caravan with a petrol is a right royal pain not to mention expensive..
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Old 7 Feb 2008, 09:21 (Ref:2123089)   #24
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tristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why do some people think there is a special technique for driving diesels. There isn't. You just work with a lower rev range, and change gear when you have more tractive effort in the next gear than the current gear, just like a petrol. They are more tolerant of lower revs than petrols because of the low rpm torque, but that's about it, and doesn't require a change of driving technique.

Also, whilst the engine has more torque for a given rpm than a normal petrol, the gearing takes advantage of this and gives comparible tractive efforts, meaning that in the normal rev range a diesel is no quicker or better. At lower revs the advantage remains however, which is why 'in gear' accelerations are usually better.

And once petrol engines are de-throttled diesel will lose most of it's advantages in the steady cruise.
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Old 7 Feb 2008, 09:25 (Ref:2123091)   #25
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And once petrol engines are de-throttled diesel will lose most of it's advantages in the steady cruise.

How so
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