ALMS 2012 Discussion

[TF110]

Look to Laguna Seca's lap times. The record is around a 1:03-1:04 in the Ferrari F2004 with a good driver. What times did the HPD set around there this year?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

As far as I can tell, URC is stillborn. I would love to be proven wrong. And then I'd love for the ALMS to birth a support series as exciting and interesting as the CTSCC. Perhaps work out a deal with the Castrol Canadian Touring Car Championship to work closely on developing a Touring Car Championship for IMSA.

... Of course, maybe they should just focus on the ALMS...

Chris

If the URC doesn't actually exist...it's gonna be a LONG day of waiting up there.

[FstrthnU]

Originally Posted by TF110

Look to Laguna Seca's lap times. The record is around a 1:03-1:04 in the Ferrari F2004 with a good driver. What times did the HPD set around there this year?

According to the official results, Muscle Milk qualified for pole with a 1:13.573. I'm not sure about the actual race laps because I would have to dig through T&S and they didn't show lap times in the ticker during the broadcast

Edit: Aha, I found the results http://www.alms.com/results Best race lap for Muscle Milk was a 1:15.544

[TF110]

So about 10 seconds. I seem to remember that the Penske Porsche was a couple seconds quicker though when it was racing a few years back.

EDIT: I was right, back in 2007 the Penske Porsche RS Spyder did a 1:10.528 for pole, then the next year the Acura ARX-01B went even faster in qualifying and did a 1:10.103.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by TF110

So about 10 seconds. I seem to remember that the Penske Porsche was a couple seconds quicker though when it was racing a few years back.

EDIT: I was right, back in 2007 the Penske Porsche RS Spyder did a 1:10.528 for pole, then the next year the Acura ARX-01B went even faster in qualifying and did a 1:10.103.

I don't remember LMPs ever getting below 1:10, but according to trackpedia.com the fastest lap by an LMP in Laguna Seca was a 1:08.268 by an R10, compared to a 1:06.309 lap by a Toyota TF106 F1 (when was that car ever in Laguna Seca?) and a 1:05.880 by a 2007 Champ Car.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

compared to a 1:06.309 lap by a Toyota TF106 F1 (when was that car ever in Laguna Seca?)

Monterey Historics..


This from the Laguna website.

On August 20, 2006, Toyota F1 test driver Ricardo Zonta set a new lap
record of 1'06.039. The previous record time was 1'07.722, set by Helio
Castroneves in a Penske Champ Car during the 2000 CART Honda
Grand Prix of Monterey. The record was re-taken by a Champ Car on
March 10, 2007 by Sébastien Bourdais, who lapped in 1'05.880 during
Champ Car Spring Training.

Since Zonta's time and Bourdais' times were set during an exhibition and
testing (respectively) and official records can only be set in race
conditions, either in qualifying or during a race, they are unofficial times.
The official record remains 1:07.722 set by Helio Castroneves in
qualifying for the 2000 race.

From the ALMS website, fastest qualifying time for ALMS was.

Acura ARX-01B - 1:10.103 - 2008

I cannot find evidence of an Audi R10 doing a 1:08.xxx

If this was done, it wasn't done in any practice/qualifying/race for IMSA.

[FstrthnU]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...014-lmp1-regs/
In the meantime, Scott Atherton says he supports the 2014 LMP1 regs. He believes the bigger fuel tank given to the privateers is a good balance from the manufacturers (which is esp. important because ALMS is the only place outside of the WEC to race P1s). Atherton thinks that both the Dyson Lola and the Muscle Milk HPD will be grandfathered into 2014 unless either of them choose to upgrade.

Honestly, I wonder whether an LMP2-Pro class and LMP2-Am class would make more sense for the ALMS (give the Pros bigger restrictors and maybe other advantages besides all-pro drivers)

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...014-lmp1-regs/

Honestly, I wonder whether an LMP2-Pro class and LMP2-Am class would make more sense for the ALMS (give the Pros bigger restrictors and maybe other advantages besides all-pro drivers)

If you want to rule out factory teams and their allure from the front of the grid.... sure..

[Deleted]

God no, let's all just stop dividing classes into meaningless subdivisions already. LMP2-PRO, LMP2-AM, and soon we have LMPC-ELITE on top of LMPC-ULTRA and LMPC-LIGHT. I've said this numerous times already but there is one thing that Grand-Am, as well CTSCC does extremely well, and that is: keeping it simple. They had 80 cars divided to two classes in Continental Tire series at the start of the season yet they didn't feel the need to give handicap award to every single person on the grid.

Renewal of P1 in ALMS won't likely be much bigger hit that it is now but at least it is a proper class. Grandfathering the current models for 2014 regs is something that I always expected to happen, and same probably applies for WEC then the ACO realizes that they only have 6-8 factory cars built to regulations and everybody else threatens to leave. We already heard some comments from P1 privateers on this subject during the RLM Thursday pitwalk @ Le Mans.

edit: this really belongs to the 2013 thread... or 2014

[Fogelhund]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...la-p2-program/

Black Swan done in P2

[Creep89]

Bleekemolen said this already at the 24h Le Mans.

[FstrthnU]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...la-p2-program/

Black Swan done in P2

It also says that they're pushing for GTE-Am for ALMS. Who knows, maybe Paul Miller Racing and the 2nd Flying Lizard would move to accompany Black Swan. It looks like Black Swan wants to go to GTE and not back to GTC.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed TV

-- After having dominated the GTC ranks for the last two years, Pappas is pushing for the adoption of a GTE-Am category in the ALMS, which would see one-year-old GT-spec machinery with a mandated Pro-Am driver lineup.

Oh...

Well it's not the biggest of losses for me as I've never cared of P2, apart from RS Spyder & Acura years of course, but I warmly welcome them to GT2, that's the place they belong to. Though unless they manage to persuade IMSA to form that god damn AM class, Pappas's slightly more gentleman-ish talents mean that they'd probably only be battling against the backmarkers aka the AJR Evora(s), Miller and Seth Neiman Experiment

[FordCosworthPanoz]

In other news, John Dagys has managed to pi$$ off the entire Grand Am forum, GARRAfans, for simply repeating something team owner Michael Shank Racing said about the future of the DP class.

Funny stuff.

[Purist]

Was it something Dagys tweeted (because I'm not finding anything inflammatory in his recent articles on SPEED)?

[Articus]

Could Black Swan finally get the BMW M3 they were rumoured to be hunting? Or will they take a 458?. Those are really the two best options for a GTE car right now.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Purist

Was it something Dagys tweeted (because I'm not finding anything inflammatory in his recent articles on SPEED)?

[Articus]

Hopefully they come to ALMS. I dont even watch GRand-Am anymore. With life getting in the way. When push comes to shove. I chose WEC/ALMS and F1.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Articus

Could Black Swan finally get the BMW M3 they were rumoured to be hunting? Or will they take a 458?. Those are really the two best options for a GTE car right now.

An M3 in Black Swan colors would look amazing.

[Deleted]

Apparently Newman Haas's ambitions in running LMP2 have also disappeared after the whole Lola fiasco errupted

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Purist

Was it something Dagys tweeted (because I'm not finding anything inflammatory in his recent articles on SPEED)?

Basically on the SPEED chat he said Michael Shank told him at RA that 3-4 DP teams or cars (not sure which) could leave the series if things don't change. Of course once somebody reported this on the GARRAFans forum, accusations started hurling about John's bias and credentials.

Some Examples of posts on the forum:

"His reporting is so biased now that his sources seem to be the alms preferred forums instead of reality."

"I'm amazed anyone still takes Dagys seriously. He's as biased as it's possible to be without him becoming the official promoter of the ALMS. Got to just assume he's jealous of the number of DPs there are compared to the frankly laughable prototype field (when you ignore the one-make club Orecas)."

"Now apparently somebody confronted him about that via Twitter and he Tweeted "Michael Shank told me that 3-4 DP's could leave. I don't make this stuff up.". Maybe he doesn't make it up but he sure does enjoy spreading anything negative about GA. He didn't have anything good to say about the GX class either. This kid should grab a lollipop get on a plane and go cover the 36 hours of China or something. Every time he writes a piece it's about a event on the other side of the globe."

"You guys should have him on Unleashed sometime so he could try to better explain his love affair with Scott Atherton, the ALMS, and all things global."

[Deleted]

That must be some of the most entertaining stuff I've ever heard.

[chernaudi]

To be fair, sportscar racing in general is in trouble, and the WEC is partly at fault. Unless the rumors suggested during Speed's LM24 broadcast is true that Audi is again considering teaming with Highcroft Racing, Audi probably won't be back in the ALMS soon, Newman-Haas have indefinitely postponed their ALMS program and Black Swan have withdrawn from LMP2 because of uncertainty over Lola's future as a race car constructor, and that little in the way of spares have come out of there in recent weeks.

Of course, Grand Am has NASCAR backing, but how long will Jim France and his ISC/NASCAR money keep things rolling? Teams are unhappy with the rules in Grand Am that seem to be favoring the Corvette-bodied cars (which John has questioned Grand Am's BoP practices there), and the fact that most Grand Am races are NASCAR style crash-fests like, well, NASCAR's own road races have tended to be, and the whole "NASCAR" aura.

I have to agree with the sentiments of Derek Bell from eariler this year and what Scott Pruett said on Wind Tunnel on Sunday: One series is the best thing for sportscar racing, but IMSA's and Grand Am's mindsets are so different, but both IMSA/ALMS and Grand Am/NASCAR have been trying to get buddy-buddy with the FIA, and to an extent, the ACO, since the FIA have partnered with them for the WEC.

But in America, sportscar racing is seen as a niche, sportsmans' sport, an not as big or as "professional" as NASCAR or Indy Car racing. Audi, Porsche and Honda had a lot to do with that change in perception, but since Audi defected from the ALMS, with Porsche following in LMP2 and Honda only supporting customer teams and Grand Am having their NASCAR stigma, ALMS and Grand Am are back to square one, which means that it's almost like 1999 again.

[Deleted]

Not as professional as Indycar, a series which is too proud to disqualify a winning car that was by all means illegal?

Btw as many of you know I don't like having BoP anywhere, let alone in Grand-Am which of course uses it constantly without any hesitation, but I didn't see Rileys etc or indeed Dagys complaining when Corvette-bodied DPs were "suddenly" on the backfoot at Daytona after utterly dominating all of the preceding test sessions before the pre-24 hour adjustments

[Jonerz]

In ACO rules racing, as well as in Grand-Am racing, there are very few people building prototypes. That is a big problem. Both concepts have a lot of potential, both concepts have a few limiting factors and a few aspects that are at a tipping point pending future announcements, rules changes, and the appearance of fully-funded programs.

I'm bullish on both ALMS and Grand-Am. In spite of the fact that they continue to try and stab each other in the back they are two different products that have managed to succeed in spite of the other's presence. If there was one series in America, things would look a ton better, but it is what it is. At least there are so many jobs in sports car racing now, right?

Chris