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Old 27 Jul 2012, 00:55 (Ref:3111896)   #2726
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Laugh all you want but those twisty 90 degree turns, stop-accelerate-stop straights and Sebring-like bumps were fun.
That's my point, the track itself was so bad that it was actually good and fun to watch races there. The circuit looked horrible in 07 without lights so lets hope it's another night race.
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Old 27 Jul 2012, 00:59 (Ref:3111898)   #2727
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Well... okay, we seem to agree and disagree at the same time, I'll call that a decent enough compromise
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Old 27 Jul 2012, 05:00 (Ref:3111924)   #2728
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probably as same as Avior Airlines a small regional Venezuelan airline
At least they get International coverage as opposed to American coverage for Adria only .
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Old 27 Jul 2012, 17:09 (Ref:3112245)   #2729
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At least they get International coverage as opposed to American coverage for Adria only .
They get International coverage through the ALMS.

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Old 27 Jul 2012, 18:56 (Ref:3112302)   #2730
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You know what I mean .....

A small little airline , from Slovenia , who are almost broke , doesnt beneifit from ALMS coverage , get real .
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 00:02 (Ref:3112398)   #2731
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You know what I mean .....

A small little airline , from Slovenia , who are almost broke , doesnt beneifit from ALMS coverage , get real .
Never said they would, in fact I'd have a hard time justifying sponsorship to ELMS teams, especially if we're not guaranteed a spot at Le Mans.

On that note, success at Petit could bring a Le Mans bid which would help selling sponsors to those who have real sponsors in the former ELMS.

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Old 28 Jul 2012, 00:11 (Ref:3112400)   #2732
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You never know, it could actually be a double LM entry if you win your class, as well as take ELMS championship OR runner-up spot.. particularly if you have two cars on your disposal. Risk worth taking, even if it potentially ends the sponsorship with Slovenian airline company or whatnot
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 03:04 (Ref:3112418)   #2733
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Missing the point ..... maybe the sponsorship coverage is pulled , from deviating from the original arena of contest ..... no sponsor , no check .....

Hey look ..... If I had a company who delt with port-a-potties in Europe , I might be doing good business within Europe , doesnt mean I need to see my name plastered across a continent far outta my business arena ..... now , is that so hard to understand ?

Please understand ..... Ive been speaking with a European P2 team owner , and this is his issue , so , accept it ..... this is his issue , and I fully understand it .

I wont mention the sponsor , cuz then the team would be obvious ..... he is worried that the market doesnt do anything for his sponsor (and so far his sponsor doesnt want to go to America) or his team as the sponsor forks out the cash ..... Is that really so difficult to understand ?

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Old 28 Jul 2012, 03:11 (Ref:3112420)   #2734
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even if it potentially ends the sponsorship with Slovenian airline company or whatnot

Are you for real , many teams depend on external sponsorship , that pays the fees , travel , drivers , food ..... loose your sponsor , and loose your cash flow ..... you wont be going anywhere .

As I said above , some teams are having issue with this already ..... some of the sponsors dont need advertising on the other side of the world .

Is that really so difficult to understand ?
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 03:36 (Ref:3112422)   #2735
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No one is misunderstanding your point, Badger. I simply brought up the fact that Le Mans' numbers are likely what used to sell sponsors on getting behind a team for an ELMS season. So Petit could be used as the means to the ends of getting a crucial Le Mans invite for some teams.

I'm not disagreeing that a lot of teams won't bother with the trek to Georgia, I have stated as much.

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Old 13 Aug 2012, 13:59 (Ref:3119345)   #2736
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So bit of a conflicting schedule for Baltimore here... the alms.com, and in fact every other source I've read says that the distance is 2 hours (which now seems to be the standard time for our street events), however the official Baltimore GP page says it's 3h 15 minutes...

Now, I'm pretty sure that's just a silly error and we'll get two hours of running - well assuming the organizers won't screw up scheduling like they did on Friday last year - but I always wonder about these things. You know last season Long Beach was supposed to be 1h40min just as in previous years but then a few weeks prior the event they suddenly changed it to two hours without really announcing it.

Dunno about the race timeslot as the full schedule hasn't been released yet, but it's probably gonna end way before sunset again. Hopefully Reliant Park returns to the calendar again next year so we could have some yummy night time running on street circuits again
Okay so that indeed was just an error on Baltimore GP page as the official IMSA weekend schedule now confirms that it's the regular 2 hour race window. Also the same exact timeslot for the race, ie 4:30 to 6:30 PM.

Some bold scheduling from the organizers thou, for example LMPC qualifying is supposed to start 5:48PM on Friday, but when you remember how well things started off last year you kind of doubt their ability to keep up with such strict schedules...
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Old 13 Aug 2012, 16:05 (Ref:3119387)   #2737
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It's a different crew organizing things this year. Also, last year, there was a game the night before track activities were scheduled to begin. That may not be the case again this year, which would certainly help.
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Old 13 Aug 2012, 16:13 (Ref:3119393)   #2738
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It's a different crew organizing things this year. Also, last year, there was a game the night before track activities were scheduled to begin. That may not be the case again this year, which would certainly help.
Yup - and that game meant they couldn't create the chicane until after the light rail service ended for the attendees. This year they're doing away with the chicane too, so hopefully there will less of that last minute construction. Barriers are already in place for a good majority of the circuit.
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Old 13 Aug 2012, 16:21 (Ref:3119394)   #2739
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Yup - and that game meant they couldn't create the chicane until after the light rail service ended for the attendees. This year they're doing away with the chicane too, so hopefully there will less of that last minute construction. Barriers are already in place for a good majority of the circuit.
No Chicane this year? that is awesome. It looked pretty mickey mouse watching on tv last year.
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Old 13 Aug 2012, 16:28 (Ref:3119400)   #2740
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Here's the piece about the changes at Baltimore.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ayout-revised/
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Old 13 Aug 2012, 22:32 (Ref:3119551)   #2741
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But I seem to remember even with the chicane the cars got a bit of a jump going across the tracks, with a full throttle run they'll no doubt get air...
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Old 14 Aug 2012, 01:50 (Ref:3119585)   #2742
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I'm sure they've been doing a LOT of grinding on Pratt Street since last year. Also, I would imagine that there will be some sort of cover over the tracks to smooth that out quite a bit for the weekend.

No chicane on the front straight should get speeds up 10-15-mph heading into Turn 1, and that heavier braking, coupled with less accordion effect coming on to the straight, should aid overtaking noticeably. It looks like the old Turn 5/6 flick is gone, so going into the complex before passing the pits should be much more apt as an overtaking zone. Also, that left/right they had last year was criticized by a lot of people as being a very hazardous place.
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Old 21 Aug 2012, 02:45 (Ref:3122375)   #2743
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From John Dagys no PR1 at Baltimore due to damage.

Team will return to the series at VIR.
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Old 21 Aug 2012, 07:10 (Ref:3122414)   #2744
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From John Dagys no PR1 at Baltimore due to damage.

Team will return to the series at VIR.
Damn man, has Marino always had luck this bad? That is 4 TIMES this year his car crashes/DNS's before he gets to drive it!
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Old 21 Aug 2012, 13:02 (Ref:3122523)   #2745
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http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

Interesting idea...
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Old 21 Aug 2012, 17:44 (Ref:3122644)   #2746
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All it takes is a bunch of teams willing to spend a quarter-million dollars per car, a TV network willing to give up serious TV time, and a bunch of sponsors who think this race will draw better than Grand-Am, ALMS, or IndyCar, none of which draw well enough to more than barely justify participation by teams or sponsors.

Of course, this race would have a benefit the other series don't have---only existing fans will have even the slightest clue what's going on or with whom. No one outside of ALMS' existing fanbase will know the teams, the drivers, the cars ... This is a huge advantage when trying to attract the attention of casual viewers.

To me this is alike an MLS All-Star game---the stars are only stars to people who follow MLS (I don't) so no one bothers to watch.

Look at women's soccer: with huge names like Abby Wambach and Hope Solo ... oh wait, those are only "huge names" to hardcore soccer fans, and register on the general national consciousness maybe every four or eight years when the Olympics roll around. WPS just folded, the second or third women's soccer league to go under.

As for bringing in big-name drivers---Rolex does that for the Rolex 24, and for a couple other races each season. Look at the Brickyard GP. Somehow even having Jimmie Johnson, Juan Pablo Montoya, and Scott Dixon in the field, the race had the same ratings as any other G/A race, and about the same 16 people in the stands.

Oddly enough, this same guy wrote a column complaining that no one cared about even the NASCAR events at the Brickyard 400 weekend. I quote: “… racing is at a crisis in the U.S. Interest - real interest by previously hard-core racing enthusiasts - is waning. And the recruiting of new young enthusiasts has proved to be difficult.”

Which is why a one-off event among drivers with no national reputation will do so much better … which is why the NASCAR stars which couldn’t draw NASCAR fans to a NASCAR race would draw viewers to a race among national nobodies.

Selling a GT Shootout would be easy--all the buyers would be the same people who already watch.

This is the guy who had all kinds of inside info about the new Corvette P1 and Cadillac GT programs—the man who assured us that Cadillac had no choice but to move into GT to replace Corvette, who would be building a P1 car for 2014.

Again, I quote: “Cadillac really has no choice at this point. They either take the CTS-V to the cutthroat world of international GT racing, or they end the program altogether. My bet is that GM motorsports honchos are poised to take the CTS-V racing program up a notch. Then what? Cadillac Racing won't compete against Corvette Racing in GT will they? No, that will never happen. Expect Corvette to be represented in GT by privateer teams.

“But the big news? Corvette Racing aims to compete at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2014 with an all-new prototype racer. The fact that the prototype rules for the 24 Hours of Le Mans are changing in 2014 has spurred GM's motorsports managers to make the decision that Corvette Racing will finally go to the next level after fifteen years of factory-supported GT racing.”

Well, it isn’t 2014 yet. We shall have to wait and see.
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Old 21 Aug 2012, 18:01 (Ref:3122649)   #2747
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And the recruiting of new young enthusiasts has proved to be difficult.”
You wanna know how to get new fans? Look at Global Rally Cross - they have managed in 2 years what Grand Am has failed to do in 15 - people stay for it after the NASCAR races.

And why does it work? Because it's action packed and it caters to todays ADD-culture. The whole "race weekend" fits into a 90 minute block of a quick practise, some heat races and some kind of final, with ultra short races of only 10 minutes or less on very short circuits.

Do the same with GT-cars and you have a smash hit with the Playstation Generation - they already know the cars, put them into the right package and they'll be hooked.

But you'd probably lose the traditional fans in the process - I'll leave it to you to decide if that would be a good trade off.
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Old 21 Aug 2012, 19:54 (Ref:3122693)   #2748
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You wanna know how to get new fans? Look at Global Rally Cross - they have managed in 2 years what Grand Am has failed to do in 15 - people stay for it after the NASCAR races.

And why does it work? Because it's action packed and it caters to todays ADD-culture. The whole "race weekend" fits into a 90 minute block of a quick practise, some heat races and some kind of final, with ultra short races of only 10 minutes or less on very short circuits.

Do the same with GT-cars and you have a smash hit with the Playstation Generation - they already know the cars, put them into the right package and they'll be hooked.

But you'd probably lose the traditional fans in the process - I'll leave it to you to decide if that would be a good trade off.
Just off the top of my head, I don't think Global Rally Cross model would do much to increase the fanbase of sports car racing. While I have actually seen Global Rally Cross promotion outside of the motorsport world, the ad was paid for by Texas Motor Speedway.

I think the way to go is to continue trying to build "events" in the stature of Petit Le Mans, Sebring, Daytona, and so forth. They bring out significant crowds and given the product (Ferraris, Porsches, Patron etc.) the small television and digital impact they have is significant amongst key demographics for certain "up-market" products.

Certainly racing is down at the moment, and you want to find ways to create growth again and avoid the peaks and troughs that sports car racing in particular is subject to. I think sports car racing has a lot to learn from NASCAR, but racing gimmicks are not it. The public eats up multi-day festivals, street parties and such so a racing product that is attractive to all the senses and is easily accessible.

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Old 21 Aug 2012, 22:52 (Ref:3122751)   #2749
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One thing about capturing the ADD generation--they can forget about your event pretty quickly just like they forget everything else.

The NFL hasn't gone to one down per series, five-minute quarters, or flaming yard lines. MLB hasn't adopted one-strike, you're out or three-inning games.

Shoot, look how much money Golf makes ... Somehow those sports attract new fans.

I agree that proper promotion, good series management, and event-packed weekends are the way to go. Every day of a race weekend should feature racing all day, and musical acts or stunt acts in all the breaks and a concert each evening (they can be a lineup of local or regional bands most of the time--and national acts for the biggest events.)

Of course, F1 doesn't do any of that ... obviously there are other ways.

Presentation of the event live and on TV are really important. At the track, more jumbotrons and better PA systems (nothing beats the excitement of trying to figure out who is leading after a round of pit stops while trying to decipher the sounds from fifteen out-of-phase, echoing loudspeakers, all conveniently placed just far away from everything that no one can hear.)

TV---pay the money to buy the time on channels people actually watch, and advertise on every major channel. Hire announcers who know racing, and directors who know even more about racing.

Shoot directors who cut away from action or cameramen who don't follow action--well, at least fire them. Avoid stupid pandering explanations of racing specifics---cheese on a cheese grater, erasers on the track? People can understand tire wear, idiots! We all drive cars and wear out tires.

I too suggest looking to NASCAR for tips. Regardless of any slight dips in ratings from time to time, NASCAR has built a national fanbase and maintained it for a couple decades. And they did it without relying on too many gimmicks.

Rallycross is fine for filling in dead time between races, or maybe for post -practice and -qualifying filler on Saturday when the main race is Sunday.

"Do the same with GT-cars and you have a smash hit with the Playstation Generation - they already know the cars, put them into the right package and they'll be hooked.

"But you'd probably lose the traditional fans in the process - I'll leave it to you to decide if that would be a good trade off."

What you would lose would be racing. What you suggest here is giving up on racing and inventing a new sport. That's fine; maybe racing as we know it is over, and after another decade of trying everyone will just walk away and forget it.

But what you suggest here is not racing, it is a childish game-show sort of spectacle. There is nothing wrong with monster truck "racing" and the "sport" is quite popular—I don't want it to replace traditional sports car and endurance racing, though.

Basically I am saying the answer to how to save racing isn't to kill it. If it dies, I don't much care what else the kids like. The answer to "How can we save racing" is more along the lines of don't waste money, sponsors and fans by having competing series (ALMS/Grand Am or Cart/IRL--it always seems to fail mightily, so let's try it again!)

Don't be cheap when it comes to promotion. Better to go into debt now and make it back over five years than to go broke slowly over five years, only to realize after filing bankruptcy that a real promotional push might have saved the series.

Don't pollute the TV product with more feature-length commercials than there are minutes of actual racing action.

Make your New Media programs work. The ADD generation expects what it wants to see to be on smartphones, tablets, PCs, and TV. Right now a certain series cannot even master the basics of Internet streaming. How many new fans do you hope to create with a non-stop series of error messages and buffering animations?

I have been watching the USA Pro Challenge cycling race and those guys get better pictures from a camera on a motorcycle in a rainstorm in a forest on a mountain than a certain series can get from a track where it has set up for several days, on a platform it has used for a couple years.

Also, end schizophrenic sponsor appeal drives. "Green Racing" is a great idea, but it isn't a sellable idea---it doesn't attract fans, factories, or sponsors. Pretending to be exclusively high-class is great, because it excludes a huge number of potential fans and sponsors—isn’t that the goal of advertising, to drive folks away?

It is fine to be a niche sport--in time almost every sport will be. But it is dumb to force yourself into a niche where you might not fit, or to try to invent a niche (say, as a high-dollar-exclusive, golf-crowd social elites sport) and then move into it. If the niche doesn't fit you tear up your series trying to force it. Maybe you want to be the racing series of champagne sippers, but if the Majority of your fans prefer beer (or Coca-Cola?????) service them.

Anyway, I am tired and I have produced a load of ********.... now I am par with the guy with the idea for a GT Shootout.

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Old 21 Aug 2012, 23:38 (Ref:3122760)   #2750
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One thing about capturing the ADD generation--they can forget about your event pretty quickly just like they forget everything else.

The NFL hasn't gone to one down per series, five-minute quarters, or flaming yard lines. MLB hasn't adopted one-strike, you're out or three-inning games.

Shoot, look how much money Golf makes ... Somehow those sports attract new fans.

I agree that proper promotion, good series management, and event-packed weekends are the way to go. Every day of a race weekend should feature racing all day, and musical acts or stunt acts in all the breaks and a concert each evening (they can be a lineup of local or regional bands most of the time--and national acts for the biggest events.)

Of course, F1 doesn't do any of that ... obviously there are other ways.

Presentation of the event live and on TV are really important. At the track, more jumbotrons and better PA systems (nothing beats the excitement of trying to figure out who is leading after a round of pit stops while trying to decipher the sounds from fifteen out-of-phase, echoing loudspeakers, all conveniently placed just far away from everything that no one can hear.)

TV---pay the money to buy the time on channels people actually watch, and advertise on every major channel. Hire announcers who know racing, and directors who know even more about racing.

Shoot directors who cut away from action or cameramen who don't follow action--well, at least fire them. Avoid stupid pandering explanations of racing specifics---cheese on a cheese grater, erasers on the track? People can understand tire wear, idiots! We all drive cars and wear out tires.

I too suggest looking to NASCAR for tips. Regardless of any slight dips in ratings from time to time, NASCAR has built a national fanbase and maintained it for a couple decades. And they did it without relying on too many gimmicks.

Rallycross is fine for filling in dead time between races, or maybe for post -practice and -qualifying filler on Saturday when the main race is Sunday.

"Do the same with GT-cars and you have a smash hit with the Playstation Generation - they already know the cars, put them into the right package and they'll be hooked.

"But you'd probably lose the traditional fans in the process - I'll leave it to you to decide if that would be a good trade off."

What you would lose would be racing. What you suggest here is giving up on racing and inventing a new sport. That's fine; maybe racing as we know it is over, and after another decade of trying everyone will just walk away and forget it.

But what you suggest here is not racing, it is a childish game-show sort of spectacle. There is nothing wrong with monster truck "racing" and the "sport" is quite popular—I don't want it to replace traditional sports car and endurance racing, though.

Basically I am saying the answer to how to save racing isn't to kill it. If it dies, I don't much care what else the kids like. The answer to "How can we save racing" is more along the lines of don't waste money, sponsors and fans by having competing series (ALMS/Grand Am or Cart/IRL--it always seems to fail mightily, so let's try it again!)

Don't be cheap when it comes to promotion. Better to go into debt now and make it back over five years than to go broke slowly over five years, only to realize after filing bankruptcy that a real promotional push might have saved the series.

Don't pollute the TV product with more feature-length commercials than there are minutes of actual racing action.

Make your New Media programs work. The ADD generation expects what it wants to see to be on smartphones, tablets, PCs, and TV. Right now a certain series cannot even master the basics of Internet streaming. How many new fans do you hope to create with a non-stop series of error messages and buffering animations?

I have been watching the USA Pro Challenge cycling race and those guys get better pictures from a camera on a motorcycle in a rainstorm in a forest on a mountain than a certain series can get from a track where it has set up for several days, on a platform it has used for a couple years.

Also, end schizophrenic sponsor appeal drives. "Green Racing" is a great idea, but it isn't a sellable idea---it doesn't attract fans, factories, or sponsors. Pretending to be exclusively high-class is great, because it excludes a huge number of potential fans and sponsors—isn’t that the goal of advertising, to drive folks away?

It is fine to be a niche sport--in time almost every sport will be. But it is dumb to force yourself into a niche where you might not fit, or to try to invent a niche (say, as a high-dollar-exclusive, golf-crowd social elites sport) and then move into it. If the niche doesn't fit you tear up your series trying to force it. Maybe you want to be the racing series of champagne sippers, but if the Majority of your fans prefer beer (or Coca-Cola?????) service them.

Anyway, I am tired and I have produced a load of ********.... now I am par with the guy with the idea for a GT Shootout.
Hmm...

Yeah, this.

Chris
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