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Old 16 May 2012, 08:38 (Ref:3075163)   #2401
Spyderman
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
I thought their mooted plan for 2013 for that official entry was a full Porsche Motorsport factory entry in GTE-Pro.
True, however, I would have thought that the experience would be somewhat limited in a 911GT3 RSR. What is it that they don't already know?
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Old 16 May 2012, 08:39 (Ref:3075164)   #2402
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by arakis View Post
doesn't the Audi quarto do that for them?
Contrary to popular belief, Porsche and Audi are not the same company.
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Old 16 May 2012, 10:40 (Ref:3075211)   #2403
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in the reality porsche has a complex structure, the head is porsche SE, this holding company own almost the 51% of wolkswagen AG (that is not the wolkswagen group, but the company that produces parts for all wolkswagen brands cars) and the 50% of porsche gmbh. Porsche gmbh own the 100% of porsche AG that is the company that materially project and build the porsche road cars. Wolkswagen AG owns the 50% of porsche AG.
As you can read the relationship between wolkswagen and porsche is a little bit complicated... but surely i can sure that there isn't any relationship between porsche and audi (wolkswagen simply owns 99.5% of audi and his side brands).
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Old 16 May 2012, 11:21 (Ref:3075229)   #2404
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
In fact VAG own 49.9% of Porsche Zwischenholding GmbH

They do not directly own 50% of Porsche AG .

Porsche AG is 100% owned by Porsche Zwischenholding GmbH,which in turn is 50.1% owned by Porsche SE (owned by the Piech and Porsche families and Qatar Holdings).


Porsche SE in turn owns 50.7% (voting rights) of Volkwagen AG (along with another 2.37% owned by Porsche GmbH Salzburg)

No one said that there is no relationship. What was said is that Porsche and Audi were not the same company. They have the same shareholders. They are in the same group but they are not the same company. Is Seat the same company as Porsche too?

Last edited by Spyderman; 16 May 2012 at 11:35.
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Old 16 May 2012, 12:21 (Ref:3075261)   #2405
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audi and porsche can't be compared because wolkswagen owning the 99.5% of audi and audi brands has the absolute control of the company (and indirectly controls also lamborghini and recently ducati). Can't be said the same of porsche, wolkswagen hasn't the complete and undisputed control on the various porsche companies, but owning around the half of the company can however heavily influence the company decision. A clear example is around 2000 when porsche was projecting a new lmp900 but wolkswagen de facto imposed the development of cayenne to the company.
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Old 16 May 2012, 13:42 (Ref:3075283)   #2406
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arakis has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Anyone who believes there is no flow of R&D information between Audi and Porsche is seriously delusional....It makes appositely no sense..Even if Audi raced Porsche in 2014 (which I seriously doubt) they would share R&D on major systems like the KERS etc....Which yo can bet your head that Audi's KERS is heavily based on Porsche's KERS, which are both developed by Williams.

They might not share Setup data, or Engine )if audi continues to use Diesel, and porshce gas... but you can bet your money Aero/chassis and KERS is all shared...
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Old 16 May 2012, 14:19 (Ref:3075309)   #2407
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I am not convinced of that.

The KERS flywheel are built by Williams (supplied) but the rest of the system is developed by the client companies.
In fact, the Flywheel for the GT3R was built to Porsche specifications.

I doubt that Audi's system is based on the Porsche one.

Last edited by Spyderman; 16 May 2012 at 14:46.
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Old 16 May 2012, 16:24 (Ref:3075366)   #2408
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Originally Posted by arakis View Post
Anyone who believes there is no flow of R&D information between Audi and Porsche is seriously delusional....It makes appositely no sense..Even if Audi raced Porsche in 2014 (which I seriously doubt) they would share R&D on major systems like the KERS etc....Which yo can bet your head that Audi's KERS is heavily based on Porsche's KERS, which are both developed by Williams.

They might not share Setup data, or Engine )if audi continues to use Diesel, and porshce gas... but you can bet your money Aero/chassis and KERS is all shared...
it's all about the wolkswagen decision, if the CEO of wolkswagen wants share audi know how to porsche too than it will happen, otherwise not.
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Old 16 May 2012, 16:40 (Ref:3075367)   #2409
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Originally Posted by alexkiller8 View Post
audi and porsche can't be compared because wolkswagen owning the 99.5% of audi and audi brands has the absolute control of the company (and indirectly controls also lamborghini and recently ducati). Can't be said the same of porsche, wolkswagen hasn't the complete and undisputed control on the various porsche companies, but owning around the half of the company can however heavily influence the company decision. A clear example is around 2000 when porsche was projecting a new lmp900 but wolkswagen de facto imposed the development of cayenne to the company.
Porsche was not owned by VW then, nor was it part of the VAG.
The decision was made by Wendelin Wiedeking who was Porsche's CEO at the time.
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Old 16 May 2012, 20:42 (Ref:3075445)   #2410
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arakis has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
It's obvius to anuone who doesn't have delusions that its economicly unsound for them to not share information...there is absolutly no reason why they should both pay for the same thing out of the same koffers....
( and no matter how you look at it, they shere enough ownership betwen each other that any money lost by any side hurts the other)

...when they could split the cost between each other, it's simple economics, and contrary to popualr belief Porsche, and Audi are in it for the money, period...They are both corportions with 50+% shares owend between the same people....and the only thing that matter to either it the balance sheet...
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Old 16 May 2012, 21:33 (Ref:3075474)   #2411
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Lets try and keep this thread on the topic of the alms. If any of you want to discuss corporate structure of porsche and audi please take it elsewhere.

Anyways Zytek have tweeted shots of a new car in build, could it be alms bound?
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Old 16 May 2012, 22:46 (Ref:3075510)   #2412
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That PLM entry list looks quite, as in incredibly, optimistic. Three Dyson cars? Two Vipers? I want a huge grid as much as the next guy, but some of that is smoke and mirrors. However, would love to be proven wrong.
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Old 16 May 2012, 22:59 (Ref:3075515)   #2413
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I also want to see the car racing.
Analyzing the information: The car was shown in Detroit 2011 like a Racing Lab., But the car never raced and I do not know of private testing
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/det...rnational.aspx

The question is: Could the 918 RSR serve as a basis for LMP1 in 2014? If the answer is yes then maybe will see the car in some races.
My guess is the 918 itself, no, but the technology in the car, absolutely.
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Old 17 May 2012, 01:52 (Ref:3075529)   #2414
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That PLM entry list looks quite, as in incredibly, optimistic. Three Dyson cars? Two Vipers? I want a huge grid as much as the next guy, but some of that is smoke and mirrors. However, would love to be proven wrong.
We should see at least one Viper. Fingers crossed for Aston Martin in GT.
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Old 17 May 2012, 02:14 (Ref:3075537)   #2415
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My guess is the 918 itself, no, but the technology in the car, absolutely.
I think like you. But I also have two guess:
1) Why Porsche shown the car like a Racing Lab. if this was never going to be race?
2) Which is the weight of the car?
If the weight is 900 Kg. I think the car could fight for overall victory in ALMS.
I say this because rivals are just private teams, with one strong car like Muscle Milk Honda ARX03A, and I think the aerodynamic disadvantages compared to LMP1 would be fully compensated with the high development of a Porsche factory team, the extra power generated for the hybrid engine and 4x4 traction generated by the front electric engine.
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Old 17 May 2012, 02:28 (Ref:3075541)   #2416
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That PLM entry list looks quite, as in incredibly, optimistic. Three Dyson cars? Two Vipers? I want a huge grid as much as the next guy, but some of that is smoke and mirrors. However, would love to be proven wrong.
Two Vipers I imagine is almost a certainty.

Three Dysons is unlikely, two is probable, and obviously the sixteen will be there. But there are rumors that Dyson will run their second B12/60 post-Le Mans with Abdul Al Faisal paying for it. As for Marsal and Lux, they are scheduled only for the sprint races, though I would anticipate Lux and Marsal would want to do Petit and there would be pressure to add to the P1 grid for a ten hour race. I think it is more likely Eric Lux would get the third seat in the (second of two) B12/60 with whoever is brought in to run with Al Faisal should that car materialize.

The only far-fetched or "smoke and mirrors" are the GT3-type cars which we have no reason to believe will have a place to play.

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Old 17 May 2012, 14:01 (Ref:3075714)   #2417
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Three Dysons is unlikely, two is probable, and obviously the sixteen will be there. But there are rumors that Dyson will run their second B12/60 post-Le Mans with Abdul Al Faisal paying for it.
I might be wrong but I reckon that's gone up in smoke after their no-show at Le Mans. At least with Al Faisal.
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Old 17 May 2012, 14:21 (Ref:3075720)   #2418
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Regarding Dyson, you have to ask yourself why there currently isn't a second (2012) car on the grid, and whom might be the rumoured party. Now Dyson has had that car since Sebring, yet we still don't see it racing. It would seem to me, that an actual agreement has not yet been completed, as why would they still be sitting on the sidelines if they've had the car for months. Second, who exactly would sign a deal to run that car now anyway? It is a vastly uncompetitive package, and barring a massive BoP, it is unlikely to become quicker any time soon. I don't think there is an agreement yet, and I don't see one happening anytime soon.
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Old 17 May 2012, 14:22 (Ref:3075721)   #2419
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I might be wrong but I reckon that's gone up in smoke after their no-show at Le Mans. At least with Al Faisal.
Yes, I'd agree that whomever they thought might be in the second car, won't be... and can you blame them, the car isn't on the pace.
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Old 17 May 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3075723)   #2420
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Regarding Dyson, you have to ask yourself why there currently isn't a second (2012) car on the grid, and whom might be the rumoured party. Now Dyson has had that car since Sebring, yet we still don't see it racing. It would seem to me, that an actual agreement has not yet been completed, as why would they still be sitting on the sidelines if they've had the car for months. Second, who exactly would sign a deal to run that car now anyway? It is a vastly uncompetitive package, and barring a massive BoP, it is unlikely to become quicker any time soon. I don't think there is an agreement yet, and I don't see one happening anytime soon.
The Lola situation might begin to play into it as well... if Lola goes completely bust, it might be necessary to cannibalize the 2nd one for spares.
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Old 17 May 2012, 14:33 (Ref:3075726)   #2421
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Nice avatar Fogelhund!
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Old 17 May 2012, 17:06 (Ref:3075795)   #2422
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Nice avatar Fogelhund!

Thanks, though I doubt few would know what he is. (besides a dog )

Yes, he's been to ALMS races, so I guess I am still on topic.
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Old 17 May 2012, 17:12 (Ref:3075798)   #2423
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Yes, he's been to ALMS races
!!!
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Old 17 May 2012, 17:55 (Ref:3075814)   #2424
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Thanks, though I doubt few would know what he is. (besides a dog )

Yes, he's been to ALMS races, so I guess I am still on topic.
German Shorthair?
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Old 17 May 2012, 18:34 (Ref:3075829)   #2425
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German Shorthair?
No sir.
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