Audi LMP1 Discussion

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Similar to one of the previous videos, but includes about a minute and a half of slow motion footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rXf0F3S_1M

That is identically the same footage as

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And it's interesting that Baretzky doesn't have a hugely high opinion on KERS, but Audi Sport themselves have said in attitude, if not words, that the R18 was designed for KERS at some stage, possibly late this year depending on when/how they test it.

Baretzky is not such a big fan of KERS. Remember http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d41vE9qiXLM#t=5m33

The fact that Audi has room behind the engine, means that they will probably go for a solution which operates on the rear wheels.

[chernaudi]

I also doubt that Audi will race with KERS this year--If Peugeot, who have more experience with KERS from the old 908 demo car, doubt that they'll race it this year and aren't 100% certain for the LM test that they'll use it, I doubt that Audi will race with KERS.

And even though it's a bit OT, it also seems that Peugeot's Bruno Famin isn't a huge fan of KERS, either. Both Baretzky and Famin seem to see KERS right now as just something else that adds more parts to the car and potentially more things to go wrong. However, it seems that the Audi and Peugeot road car (and marketing!) people have been able to convince them to give it a shot.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Of course, I'm still waiting for the Fourtitude write up and additional videos that they've gotten. But since they've only posted a link to their long awaited '10 LM24 review (though it's not up on their site yet, nor have they updated their incomplete race gallery), it may be a while before they get all their R18 stuff up.

Fourtitude posted the same footage as quattroworld, which was shot for Audi of America by Guerilla Video:

• Audi of America's R18 B-Roll Shot at Sebring Test
• Fourtitude Interview Clips with Wolfgang Ullrich, Ullrich Baretzky and Howden Haynes at R18 Sebring Test

[gwyllion]

The interviews above were done by George of Fourtitude: http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...1#post70798148

[WolfsburgRS]

Another new video from George & Fourtitude - additional interviews, footage, etc. 17 mins...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BopPEONSECY

[gwyllion]

Thanks for the link.

One car was testing new parts and the other doing an endurance run. In Sebring they are not allowed to run during the night, so the car is put in the garage during the night. According to Ullrich a proper 30 hour simulation will be done at Paul Ricard in May. That seems a bit late compared to Peugeot, who did an endurance test this week.

Baretzky also suggested that Peugeot canceled their plan to use KERS because they don't want to be distracted from their primary goal of winning Le Mans.

I noticed that nobody mentions the big front tyres. Very little information about the engine configuration (V angle, number and location of turbos) is given, only the displacement and number of cilinder is mentioned.

[chernaudi]

The only reason I can see why Audi couldn't do a 30 hour test at Sebring without stopping is because of there being NIMBY's near the track and that it's only licensed for night running during the 12 hour race week.

Of course, Audi probably had to do similar things with the R15 last year, and with the R8 and R10, the avoided the problem all together by running the race, and doing another 12 hours on Monday. So I fail to see the difference there aside from the fact that it's not 30 hours at once. Of course, Paul Ricard is in the middle of no where, or French laws on noise are less restrictive...

And you have to believe that Ullrich's statements aren't 100% accurate, as there's a full month between now and the May test at the least, and that's plenty of time to test, although I'm not the guy who has scheduled the Audi tests.

However, one thing I do find strange is that Audi have seem to come out of the box with a fast car, vs previous years where they tried to make a reliable car faster. I hope that Audi don't screw themselves with this change of tactics.

[Gingers4Justice]

The R18 seems far more nimble than the R15. It seems capable of moving from one side of the track to another very quickly.

[chernaudi]

Better weight distribution, wider front tires and better aero will do that, as well as not having to modify a car that was designed around a flawed aero concept and all the compormises it entails.

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Better weight distribution, wider front tires and better aero will do that, as well as not having to modify a car that was designed around a flawed aero concept and all the compormises it entails.

Playing judge, don't remember but did many people say it was a flawed aero concept when it won it's first race in 2009 against Peugeot?

Personally I would wait until the first race or Le Mans before making those assumptions.

[chernaudi]

The orginal R15 was flawed because it was designed around an aero concept that only worked in the ALMS/LMS, not at LM where they were easily 20kmph/10mph or more slower than the Pugs down the straights.

And in the Fourtitude video, Dr. Ullrich basically admits that the R15 was a flawed concept due to rapid rules changes--he basically said, in attitude if not words, if the R18 had the R15's engine it in, that's what the R15 should've been had they known that the post '08 regs would put open cars at such a straightline speed disadvantage.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Lola T70

Playing judge, don't remember but did many people say it was a flawed aero concept when it won it's first race in 2009 against Peugeot?

Personally I would wait until the first race or Le Mans before making those assumptions.

Ultimately it was flawed in concept as well as execution. This has been documented over the years on my website. Hopefully the full story will come out at some point in the future as it makes an interesting story. Flawed or not, the car still won Le Mans.

[chernaudi]

Some more numbers from the Sebring test that I was told of a few days ago--it seems that the 1:44s that Audi ran with the R18 in January weren't just plausable, but it seems that they weren't a fluke either.

A comment poster on this video wrote that he was told that at least one of the cars ran laps in the 1:44 range again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rXf0F3S_1M

I've asked for confirmation, but if that's true, then the new R18 should be plenty fast, as I don't think that Peugeot can make up 2 seconds in time by making little tweaks, even if they were sandbagging at Sebring, and I don't think that they can adapt the entire LM package for sprint race use, because of a stockpile of parts and differing aero philosophies between LM and the other ILMC tracks. Some of it will work, but some of it won't, either, because of downforce requirements.

And we shouldn't forget if the R18 is faster than the 908, it's inconclusive where it's faster, as neither car has raced one another yet, and that Audi and Peugeot used differening aero packages at Sebring that week (Peugeot definenly had a sprint package, while Dr. Ullrich admitted that the test cars had an LM package).

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Flawed or not, the car still won Le Mans.

Not only that, it finished 1-2-3.

We can criticise the design flaws in terms of speed with the Audi but this is still endurance racing. All 4 Peugeots retired at Le Mans and for me, that's a far greater flaw in concept than the R15.

The R18 needs more raw pace than the R15 but I think the most important thing is still being more reliable than the Pugs, who had a poor Sebring on that front.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Some more numbers from the Sebring test that I was told of a few days ago--it seems that the 1:44s that Audi ran with the R18 in January weren't just plausable, but it seems that they weren't a fluke either.

A comment poster on this video wrote that he was told that at least one of the cars ran laps in the 1:44 range again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rXf0F3S_1M

I've asked for confirmation, but if that's true, then the new R18 should be plenty fast, as I don't think that Peugeot can make up 2 seconds in time by making little tweaks, even if they were sandbagging at Sebring, and I don't think that they can adapt the entire LM package for sprint race use, because of a stockpile of parts and differing aero philosophies between LM and the other ILMC tracks. Some of it will work, but some of it won't, either, because of downforce requirements.

And we shouldn't forget if the R18 is faster than the 908, it's inconclusive where it's faster, as neither car has raced one another yet, and that Audi and Peugeot used differening aero packages at Sebring that week (Peugeot definenly had a sprint package, while Dr. Ullrich admitted that the test cars had an LM package).

These days teams don't have vastly different aero for LM, the latest 908 is likely to be their base ILMC car from here on.

[chernaudi]

Some of that stuff might end up on the 908, but I do wonder how much of a compormise it might be to bolt LM body panel on to a sprint race car. I'd definently wouldn't think that the LM nose would be used on the 908, and I'd also wonder about if Peugeot has a sizeable stockpile of the Sebring spec bodywork, considering how long they've had the car and in the race the 908's performed fine (albeit against performance ballanced R15s, that were reported to be about 1.5 seconds a lap on average slower than the R18).

Fourtitude on the news blog is reporting that Audi will likely reveal their color schemes for their cars at or soon before the LM test day. Also, on the Spa promo poster, the windshield banner has been changed from "Vorsprung Durch Technik" to "Audi Ultra", to promote Audi's drive for road car effiencicy though diesel power.

[gustavobamba]

Anyone know when it will be revealed the official decoration of the audi r18??

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Anyone know when it will be revealed the official decoration of the audi r18??

I don't think anyone knows an exact date yet

[chernaudi]

The Fourtitude news blog post says either immediately before or during the LM test weekend, and likely at Le Mans.

[knighty]

cough.....colours, my fave subject, well lets bring on the serious speculation then!.......I reckon it will be some kinda silver pattern

oh f&*k that...... someone show me an engine bay image....... I will crawl over broken glass to see that.........also I'm keen to see if this thing will be belching black smoke like it was on several scenes from the sebring footage.......oh I'm so desperate to see a diesel get black flagged for visible exhaust emissions, but saying that I think the AMR boys will also be in with a shout too!!!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

cough.....colours, my fave subject, well lets bring on the serious speculation then!.......I reckon it will be some kinda silver pattern

oh f&*k that...... someone show me an engine bay image....... I will crawl over broken glass to see that.........also I'm keen to see if this thing will be belching black smoke like it was on several scenes from the sebring footage.......oh I'm so desperate to see a diesel get black flagged for visible exhaust emissions, but saying that I think the AMR boys will also be in with a shout too!!!

Wouldn't that be great to get all the Diesels black flagged for puffing smoke? and in the mean time a privateer petrol car cruises to victory!!

[AGD]

Originally Posted by joeb

Wouldn't that be great to get all the Diesels black flagged for puffing smoke? and in the mean time a privateer petrol car cruises to victory!!

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen...even if you have to inhale a bunch of soot!

[chernaudi]

And the ALMS fan forum strikes again on the Audi 1:44 lap time reports. The You Tube poster who sent me the info on the 1:44 lap times said that he read that report on the ALMS' fan forum, and the times were recorded by someone who was at Sebring with a stopwatch.

That being said, we have to accept that the prospect of human error (man with stopwatch vs automated electronic T&S), but even if the guy with the stopwatch was off +/- .5 of a second, it's easy to assume that the R18s were easily running well into the 1:45 range (confirmed by Duncan Dayton on day one of test), and should've, if anything (specifically with the set up/R&D car), gone faster, as the 1:44s were recorded on the last day of testing.

Considering the human error factor, the times probably weren't 100% accurate, but even if they were off by about .5 of a second off the actual times (which only Audi Sport have), that's still quite a bit faster than Peugeot managed in qualifying, and even if the Pugs were sandbagging, it'll take quite a bit of work to knock down a 1-2 second laptime gap, if the times are accurate.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And the ALMS fan forum strikes again on the Audi 1:44 lap time reports. The You Tube poster who sent me the info on the 1:44 lap times said that he read that report on the ALMS' fan forum, and the times were recorded by someone who was at Sebring with a stopwatch.

That being said, we have to accept that the prospect of human error (man with stopwatch vs automated electronic T&S), but even if the guy with the stopwatch was off +/- .5 of a second, it's easy to assume that the R18s were easily running well into the 1:45 range (confirmed by Duncan Dayton on day one of test), and should've, if anything (specifically with the set up/R&D car), gone faster, as the 1:44s were recorded on the last day of testing.

Considering the human error factor, the times probably weren't 100% accurate, but even if they were off by about .5 of a second off the actual times (which only Audi Sport have), that's still quite a bit faster than Peugeot managed in qualifying, and even if the Pugs were sandbagging, it'll take quite a bit of work to knock down a 1-2 second laptime gap, if the times are accurate.

Pfffffft!! The peugeot not being able to keep up with the Audi. Within reason im sure that not only were the dirvers not pushing very hard. The engines were turned way down to make sure they lasted.( Remeber 07 when peugeot showed up and the R10 sliced and diced them with speed. The peugeot had detuned engines for the race to ensure reliablity. the next Year with full engine performance the peugeots were the quickest by far. Im sure what we saw was a detuned engine and a safe consistent setup to evaluate reliability and tire wear/ Learn about the car.