Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Lola T70

So if it cannot be answered then what is the point in making a statement that has no back up to it?

There's a back up called simple logic. That's what tells anyone who'd like to join to hold their horses (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ferrari... who knows?).

Originally Posted by Lola T70

If I look at sector times at Le Mans pre test it in no way says that Rebellion or Pescarolo lost more time in sector 2 (the 3 parts of Mulsanne straight) than it did in other sectors. The BEST petrol car looses 1 second alone in Porsche corners, not much power needed there! This tells me that the petrol car chassis is maybe not as good as the Audi or Peugeot either!

Are you aware that setting up a car to reduce drag (to lose less time in S2) will leave you with less downforce for S3?

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Aston Martin did come. Rules didn't change. No, wait... the rules actually did change. But we'll see after Spa if they are applied or not. If not, that would be a major detraction from ACO racing.
Why not enter with a diesel car?
- barely anyone has experience with racing diesel technology of this level
- hence it would be way more expensive and take more time to catch up
- some say the years of diesel cars as an economical alternative are numbered (due to possible change in the emission standards)

aston martin came with a budget equal to peugeot's logistics budget, like someone said recently. that's not really serious involvment and challenging for the win. if ferrari came, or jaguar, to battle for the win, i am pretty sure things would change. and i don't even think they'd need a whole lot of regs change. it's just that they'd come up with much better solutions than pesca or even aston, in order to challenge peugeot and audi.
now, concerning the experience of other manufacturers with diesel cars, actually, endurance racing is something that you have to gain experience before you can win. peugeot did not win the first time they came, in 2007, or in 1991. bmw did not win the first time they came, actually, they abandoned in the first 2 hours in 1998. not even audi won their first time, in 1999. it's something natural in endurance racing that you do not come with major chances in your first year. and one year would be just enough for a big manufacturer to get in touch with what they have to do in order to have an efficient diesel machine at lm - look at peugeot, who were already down to 3:18s in 2008 after returning to le mans in 2007. and it was not that cars didn't last, it was just bad strategy that made them lose that race to audi.

[chernaudi]

As to the gasoline engined teams, wouldn't a cash bonus be enough to light some fire under some bottoms to get factories to back up some more privateer teams? Grand Am is rumored to be offering teams a $25,000 bonus to any team that can beat Ganassi this year. Money, they say, is the root of all evil. Well, evil might not be the intent here, but it certianly can be a big motivator. However, bonus or no bonus, you're still fighting the likes of Audi and Peugeot--two companies that have invested the most, are used to winning, and have bespoke cars designed and built to their specifcations.

On to Spa, Allan McNish has posted on his site something that I find interesting. He said that Spa has some characteristics of Le Mans, but has shorter straights and more corners, and more entries on a shorter track. The comments I'm referring to seem to say that some changes will be made to the R18's setup for Spa compared to Le Mans, but he didn't go into specifics:

http://www.allanmcnish.com/blog/2011...te-tracks-.asp

Other that minor changes to the chassis setup, what else could Audi change, with Allan's statement being rather non-descript? I don't even know if Audi has any high downforce bits ready for Spa, and it might not be until Imola or even Silverstone that they get a full kit ready.

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

There's a back up called simple logic. That's what tells anyone who'd like to join to hold their horses (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ferrari... who knows?).
Are you aware that setting up a car to reduce drag (to lose less time in S2) will leave you with less downforce for S3?

Disagree that regulations are effecting all manufacturers for not going into LMP1. Toyota have other issues, Ferrari are in F1, Honda have an LMP1 already etc.

I am aware of the idea of reducing downforce to increase straight line speed but by that rational the petrol straight line speeds would be faster than they were (such as Dome), or their aero could be producing too much drag!

All I am saying is that it is not all engine regulations that are causing a time and speed difference in LMP1 or stopping manufacturers being part of LMP1.

[Pandamasque]

I wish ACO could put all the cars on the dyno to stop the bs. I don't want BoP. I just hate that factories that come with cash can negotiate an advantage before they start designing the cars. That was clearly the case with R10 and never changed since. Le Mans deserves better than a 2 horse race.

[gwyllion]

A first picture from Spa paddock: http://pitlane-vision.com/images/sto...05.05/1/10.jpg
The R18 features an extra gurney flap next to the rear wing end plate, which was also the case in the high downforce aero package of the R15+. There are no louvers on the engine cover.

[gwyllion]

FYI Radio Le Mans heard at lunch that 6 R18s have been built.

[chernaudi]

Other than that, it looks like it's with the LM aero package--the main deck gurney is short like on the LM test cars, and it still has the large "tab" dive planes like at LM as well.

I wonder if Audi will even bother with developing a full on sprint race body kit, especially if Peugeot standardize on a modifed LM package from here on out?

[Adam43]

General Mod Note:

We should try to not turn this thread into another equivelency rule thread. There are other places to discuss that. If this thread goes that way then it will stiffle discussion on the R18.

To be clear to those who now want to type the word "Nazi" or comment on "freedom of speech" this is to encourage discussion not to say you can't discuss it.

Thanks everyone

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Adam43

General Mod Note:
To be clear to those who now want to type the word "Nazi" or comment on "freedom of speech" this is to encourage discussion not to say you can't discuss it.

Thanks everyone

What if we like the term "big brother" better?

[chernaudi]

Unless it pertains directly to the R18 itself, equivlancy discussion would just clutter up the thread. Yes, it's a diesel car, but its not alone in that distinction, and there's probably any number of threads availble for gas vs diesel discussion.

Some discussion is fine in my book, but it shouldn't dominate the thread.

Speaking of which, I don't find it strange that Audi is running their basic LM package, but I do find it unusual that Peugeot is, and if that could be making some difference in comparitive sector and lap times.

[92scotland]

Originally Posted by CTD

What if we like the term "big brother" better?

[gwyllion]

Some info on the R18's full LED headlights: http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_6800.shtml

[gwyllion]

Because they use the same wheel size at the front as at the rear, Audi painted the center of the front rims yellow:
http://endurance-info.com/version2/g..._06_05_079.jpg
A clever trick for the mechanics to visually confirm that they are mounting the correct wheel

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Because they use the same wheel size at the front as at the rear, Audi painted the center of the front rims yellow:
http://endurance-info.com/version2/g..._06_05_079.jpg
A clever trick for the mechanics to visually confirm that they are mounting the correct wheel

Rebellion have already done something like that, red edges to the rims on the front and gold on the rims on the rear...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Because they use the same wheel size at the front as at the rear, Audi painted the center of the front rims yellow:
http://endurance-info.com/version2/g..._06_05_079.jpg
A clever trick for the mechanics to visually confirm that they are mounting the correct wheel

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Rebellion have already done something like that, red edges to the rims on the front and gold on the rims on the rear...

Let's hope no ones Colour blind

[chernaudi]

And Acura had their rear wheel's attachment point recessed as the hubs were inboard mounted.

In the case of Audi for sure, and maybe Rebellion and Peugeot, they need some indentification because the wheels are the same on all four corners, though I think that Peugeot also runs recessed rear hubs.

[gwyllion]

I just realize that pole position is worth 1 ILMC point.

So Audi closes the gap to Peugeot in the manufacturers cup by 1 point: Peugeot 27 - Audi 18.

Luckly, the #1 Audi toke pole. The #1 and #2 are entered under the Team Joest banner and they score points for the ILMC teams cup. If the #3 Audi would have taken pole, that point would have been lost.

Strange things can happen in the teams championship.

[chernaudi]

New RTL videos about the R18 at Speed.com:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...i-r18-testing/

Personally, I'd wait for HD versions to show up on You Tube, as quality isn't great.

However, it seems that Audi may've thought about the traffic deal with the R18, as in the on track video, you'll occasionally hear an R8 LMS on the track while the R18's are going around.

[gwyllion]

The video can not be played outside USA

Simulating traffic with 1 R8 LMS

The R18 laps the HTTT track in 1:4x and a GT3 car in 2:0x. That means that the R18 will hit "traffic" once every 6-7 laps!

[chernaudi]

There was at least one out there for some reason while the R18s were on track, if the sound was properly synced up.

The video should maybe be on RTL's site, since they produce these videos with Audi Sport, unless Marshall bribed Audi into giving him the footage first.

Video quality isn't that great anyways--sort of blurry on Speed's player.

The best bet for a good version of the video is for it to be posted by some automotive site on You Tube in a few days time.

[gwyllion]

Which RTL? One of the TV channels from the RTL Group? Which country? ...

[cdsvg]

Is this the same video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evkWpjb_zrY

IMO, the new V6 sounds fantastic, it just needs to be about 10x louder!

[gwyllion]

Thanks for the link.

In http://pitlane-vision.com/fils-dactu...ression-r.html Dumas gives some comments on the R18 comparing it to the R15. He repeats what we have heard before (more agile, better grip, better aero, less power, bad visibility to the right). However, he also remarks that the car is less robust than the R15, which could be an issue in case of contact.

[Adam43]

It sounds like they had a mare at Spa. Is the R18 hard to drive, difficult in traffic, or are they just sandbagging?