NZV8's 2011/12

[Chappelli]

It's got nothing to do with proprietry information.

I suspect Greg Murphy knows about as much about Mike Pero's business secrets as I do. It doesn't mean we'll see Murph on the next Adam Parore commercial.

Likewise, there probably isn't anything proprietry Andy Booth is going to give away if the team have the fridge stocked with Jack Daniels.

Why? Because both guys are being paid to promote a brand. Which, whether or not it's spelt out in the contract, for me means you don't promote the direct opposition.

To be fair, although uncommon there are ad agencies that look after multiple competitive brands, but the teams working on those are generally kept very seperate and they're generally the bigger agencies that have long track records and are chosen because they offer expertise that is of rare quality.
This may be an unfair to Jono, but my understanding is that he's a race car driver who happens to be pretty handy on twitter.... Not a social media professional of such track record and rare quality that the cross over is necessary to play the size game that the brand is after.

Again, not a criticism of Jono. Just a situation that, I don't think would have generated any debate in the businesses I've worked in.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Again, people can't see the distinction, which is really no surprise to me.

1. Someone who is employed full time and retained on a full time employment basis.
2. Someone who is an independent business that sells goods and services to multiple customers.

Two very different scenarios and outcomes.

Since the dawn of time, drivers have raced for multiple series in different cars at different tracks. Unless a driver is retained by a manufacturer on a yearly basis with exclusive rights, that driver can race wherever he wants and drivers always have.

No different with any other business out there.

I am an idependent contractor who does work for a media company on an account for a building company. Because I, in doing my work am identifiable, I'm not allowed to do anything identifiable paid or not for a competitor. I can give you the names of a dozen or people in exactly the same boat... In fact I would go so far as to say it's standard operating procedure.

In saying that, my contract doesn't specifically state what constitutes a conflict. It's just common sense that if you're identifiable and your promoting one brand, you don't get into a situation where your seen to be promoting or showing preference for the competitor.

So when you say 'it's no different to any business out there' I presume it's not like your industry (which is?) because it's actually exactly like my business and the vast majority of the media and ad industry.

[Icarus_nz]

Everyone is presuming that Joe Public actually gives a ****

With limited dicressionary spending they'll vote with their wallet for the event that suits their needs/desires.

Some here are thinking that the great unwashed will be basing their decision on 'Jono Who?' - (sorry Jono but I think YOU'RE smart enough to grasp my point, if in fact you ever come here...)

[flyingduck]

OK I've read all the info and whilst I agree with the Jono has a conflict of interest there is 2 things that I see

1 Jono is not the face of NZV8's he just pushes buttons behind the scenes

2 Why would ST want Jono in the class, If Jono does in fact have a new NZV8 drive I think that it is in ST best interest to not have Jono in a car because if he wins the Enduro he legitimizes the drivers in the NZV8's as being as good as ST drivers because one of them won the enduros. With MNZ seemingly freezing out the support classes of ST, ST needs to make sure that they keep the brand strong and do no cross selling to the NZV8 class. People like Edgell, Fogg and Evans need to have drives in ST not NZV8 to keep the peoples mind in one place.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

2 Why would ST want Jono in the class, If Jono does in fact have a new NZV8 drive I think that it is in ST best interest to not have Jono in a car because if he wins the Enduro he legitimizes the drivers in the NZV8's as being as good as ST drivers because one of them won the enduros. With MNZ seemingly freezing out the support classes of ST, ST needs to make sure that they keep the brand strong and do no cross selling to the NZV8 class. People like Edgell, Fogg and Evans need to have drives in ST not NZV8 to keep the peoples mind in one place.

This is what I feared would happen back when the split was initiated and that is people drawing battle lines and pitting us versus them and them versus us.

At the end of the day, this is not war, religion or politics with life and death struggles, it's a motor racing series. In the grand scheme of the world and all it's problems it means nothing.

From a driver's perspective, if people in the biz want to lock horns over territory and battle it out, go for it, otherwise a driver is there to drive. Any professional driver worth their salt is going to take every opportunity they can to race and drive a variety of cars and of course further their career.

I think people are taking themselves way too seriously and the best way I can describe this whole drama is "Pole Vaulting over a Mouse Turd".

[flyingduck]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

This is what I feared would happen back when the split was initiated and that is people drawing battle lines and pitting us versus them and them versus us.

At the end of the day, this is not war, religion or politics with life and death struggles, it's a motor racing series. In the grand scheme of the world and all it's problems it means nothing.

From a driver's perspective, if people in the biz want to lock horns over territory and battle it out, go for it, otherwise a driver is there to drive. Any professional driver worth their salt is going to take every opportunity they can to race and drive a variety of cars and of course further their career.

I think people are taking themselves way too seriously and the best way I can describe this whole drama is "Pole Vaulting over a Mouse Turd".

Mountain Star I agree that no one is going to win this battle, I hope that all can get along but from what I have seen and heard that will not happen.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

Mountain Star I agree that no one is going to win this battle, I hope that all can get along but from what I have seen and heard that will not happen.

Big shame really as it ultimately is only a few people on both sides who are driving the hate and the sport in general is way bigger than that..............if i was going to give a youngster like jono any advice it would be accept your drives and do a good job and if the political heat turns up relating to your part time job--well there's plenty of others out there "but your a long time retired as a race driver'

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by harcey

Big shame really as it ultimately is only a few people on both sides who are driving the hate and the sport in general is way bigger than that..............if i was going to give a youngster like jono any advice it would be accept your drives and do a good job and if the political heat turns up relating to your part time job--well there's plenty of others out there "but your a long time retired as a race driver'

I think you have also had a little to say about it without trying to commit yourself to much.

Most of us now know this topic will never be resolved, because there are two very strong yet different thoughts on the subject. Lets hope it will die a natural death and we can get on and talk about something more interesting, like motor racing perhaps.

It will remain like an open wound if people keep on going on about it and it will never be put to rest.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

Why would ST want Jono in the class?

It isn't up to ST. It is up to the franchise owner - in this case ST Marketting chappie/Director/whatever JMac.

Originally Posted by flyingduck

If Jono does in fact have a new NZV8 drive I think that it is in ST best interest to not have Jono in a car because if he wins the Enduro he legitimizes the drivers in the NZV8's as being as good as ST drivers because one of them won the enduros.

And if the show is good enough I'm sure the ST folks would say 'well done'. McLauglan drove NZV8 last season. Fogg won it this season.
There are some pretty amazing drivers filling the mid to back of the feild.
So it can't be that simple can it?

Originally Posted by flyingduck

With MNZ seemingly freezing out the support classes of ST, ST needs to make sure that they keep the brand strong and do no cross selling to the NZV8 class. People like Edgell, Fogg and Evans need to have drives in ST not NZV8 to keep the peoples mind in one place.

The battle isn't of the brands tho is it? Its whether negative marketting is stronger than straightforward marketting.

The interesting choice will be whether the people with the 'old' NZV8 will hang around or whether they'll go and have their fun in Challenge Cup.
Up til now I don't see that there has been much push to 'sell' challenge cup.
Hugh Gardiner is a chap who has done a few things now and I believe he's currently having the time of his life.

[flyingduck]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

It isn't up to ST. It is up to the franchise owner - in this case ST Marketting chappie/Director/whatever JMac.



And if the show is good enough I'm sure the ST folks would say 'well done'. McLauglan drove NZV8 last season. Fogg won it this season.
There are some pretty amazing drivers filling the mid to back of the feild.
So it can't be that simple can it?



The battle isn't of the brands tho is it? Its whether negative marketting is stronger than straightforward marketting.

The interesting choice will be whether the people with the 'old' NZV8 will hang around or whether they'll go and have their fun in Challenge Cup.
Up til now I don't see that there has been much push to 'sell' challenge cup.
Hugh Gardiner is a chap who has done a few things now and I believe he's currently having the time of his life.

Ok a few points,

First point yes it's up to the team, but the ST director in Johnny Mac is the team owner in this case and could pull the party line

Mclauglan did not drive in NZV8 last season.

Fogg won the championship and left which devalues the championship in my book, now if he goes back and drives a new Toyota in the NZV8's that will be different

The old NZV8's from what I have heard will have there own Championship to run for at tier one meeting.

But after all this I was trying to play the devils advocate after so many have said why would NZV8 let the marketing internet guru Mr Lester drive in ST, I took the view of why would ST want Mr Lester drive in the ST

This is not really about Jono who is a nice guy who has done well in a number of classes with out winning much, I think he will handle the clash of interest with out a problem. I hope he can find a series he can race in for 3 to 5 years and build up the speed because then he will win some of the Premier classes in NZ motorsport.

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

Ok a few points,

First point yes it's up to the team, but the ST director in Johnny Mac is the team owner in this case and could pull the party line

Mclauglan did not drive in NZV8 last season.

Fogg won the championship and left which devalues the championship in my book, now if he goes back and drives a new Toyota in the NZV8's that will be different

The old NZV8's from what I have heard will have there own Championship to run for at tier one meeting.

But after all this I was trying to play the devils advocate after so many have said why would NZV8 let the marketing internet guru Mr Lester drive in ST, I took the view of why would ST want Mr Lester drive in the ST

This is not really about Jono who is a nice guy who has done well in a number of classes with out winning much, I think he will handle the clash of interest with out a problem. I hope he can find a series he can race in for 3 to 5 years and build up the speed because then he will win some of the Premier classes in NZ motorsport.

McLauglan did drive in the 10/11 season, but did not compete in this 11/12 season. (you are both correct)

Fog has stated that if he can find sponsorship he would run again in the NZV8's in the upcomming 12/13 season. I don't think you can say that he has de-valued the championship and left, he is just doing something in the off season which he is entitled to. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't even think Angus has ever been associated to MSNZ, he has allways been a driver for Hopper Racing, International Motorsport and Strapping Products (KW), I don't believe him or K Williams have burn't any bridges with MSNZ but that is just my perspective.

As at yesterday afternoon, a discussion that I had with a motorsport offical, Jono Lester is still doing the MSNZ thing so they can't be that bothreed by it. I do not know the ST view on it but they would have all known about Jono's appointment prior to this round and I believe Petch & Anderson & Pederson etc would have all known about Jono's inclusion as i think the drivers have to be on an official register to drive a ST or its prototype.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

McLauglan did drive in the 10/11 season, but did not compete in this 11/12 season. (you are both correct)

Fog has stated that if he can find sponsorship he would run again in the NZV8's in the upcomming 12/13 season. I don't think you can say that he has de-valued the championship and left, he is just doing something in the off season which he is entitled to. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't even think Angus has ever been associated to MSNZ, he has allways been a driver for Hopper Racing, International Motorsport and Strapping Products (KW), I don't believe him or K Williams have burn't any bridges with MSNZ but that is just my perspective.

As at yesterday afternoon, a discussion that I had with a motorsport offical, Jono Lester is still doing the MSNZ thing so they can't be that bothreed by it. I do not know the ST view on it but they would have all known about Jono's appointment prior to this round and I believe Petch & Anderson & Pederson etc would have all known about Jono's inclusion as i think the drivers have to be on an official register to drive a ST or its prototype.

Please explain to me how you arrived at your decision that both of these poster are correct, about when McLauglan last drove in the NZV8 series.

Icarus says he drove in last seasons series and Flyingduck says he didn't, I know he drove in the 2010/2011 series only. So how can you say they are both be correct, when last season was 2011/2012 and not 2010/2011.

[Vanishing Point]

As Motorsport Fans lets be honest.... The V8 Supertourers at HD in the weekend provided some of the best racing we've seen in NZ for a very long time. It was bloody amazing. In comparison to the dismal and pathetic NZV8 fields over summer it was fantastic. Which brings me to the ongoing conflict between ST & MSNZ, it needs to be resolved. MSNZ need to wake up and put the interests of the fans and clubs first instead of their own ego's... Their unprofessional and selfish conduct has been woefully irresponsible. So my challenge to MSNZ is this... Have the courage to sort it out.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point

As Motorsport Fans lets be honest.... The V8 Supertourers at HD in the weekend provided some of the best racing we've seen in NZ for a very long time. It was bloody amazing. In comparison to the dismal and pathetic NZV8 fields over summer it was fantastic.

Totally agree, and the TV coverage and commentary is improving too.

By the way, I saw VP when I was 14 and was ****ing myself buying the ticket!

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Please explain to me how you arrived at your decision that both of these poster are correct, about when McLauglan last drove in the NZV8 series.

Icarus says he drove in last seasons series and Flyingduck says he didn't, I know he drove in the 2010/2011 series only. So how can you say they are both be correct, when last season was 2011/2012 and not 2010/2011.

I deem the new/next season to not start until Round 1.

Therefore this season 2011/2012 (& the title of this thread) McLaughlan did not race. Last season 2010/2011 he did.

It all depends if you count the 2011/2012 season as "this" season, or as "last" season. Open to enturperation, but as the thread is still titled 2011/12 discussion then I deem it to still be that season.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

I deem the new/next season to not start until Round 1.

Therefore this season 2011/2012 (& the title of this thread) McLaughlan did not race. Last season 2010/2011 he did.

It all depends if you count the 2011/2012 season as "this" season, or as "last" season. Open to enturperation, but as the thread is still titled 2011/12 discussion then I deem it to still be that season.

There is only one way to look at it, the season is over and championship has been won, so you can only refer to it as last season. We now look forward to next season, if there is one?

[Vanishing Point]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Totally agree, and the TV coverage and commentary is improving too.

By the way, I saw VP when I was 14 and was ****ing myself buying the ticket!

Your absolutely correct On_to_it... The TV coverage is getting better and better. I watched the racing on MySky Sunday night and was glued to my telle for 3 hours... it was fantastic .. The racing is even better than what Supercars are delivering at the moment. What worries me is that little old NZ can't afford two V8 Classes and the prolonged conflict between NZV8 & ST is no good for anybody... If MSNZ had motorsport interests and the fans interests at heart we would not be in this situation...I suggest Harris, Fine, Fowlke and Tulloch put their own self interests aside and start thinking of the us.. The Fans, because without our support they don't have a mandate to govern.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point

If MSNZ had motorsport interests and the fans interests at heart we would not be in this situation

Agree, but the story is that the past president and some cronies will determine (without bias) what the story is - not you and I

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point

...I suggest Harris, Fine, Fowlke and Tulloch put their own self interests aside and start thinking of the us.. The Fans, because without our support they don't have a mandate to govern.

Hmmm. They don't govern. They are tasked with operating the promotional body. No conflict of interest to be seen. No No. They don't need a mandate to drive your wallet.

(Insert big sarcasm smiley here)

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Jerico

There is only one way to look at it, the season is over and championship has been won, so you can only refer to it as last season. We now look forward to next season, if there is one?

Then start a new thread cause you are still discussing the NZV8 2011/12 season according to the topic of the thread, hence last season was 2010/11.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point

Your absolutely correct On_to_it... The TV coverage is getting better and better. I watched the racing on MySky Sunday night and was glued to my telle for 3 hours... it was fantastic .. The racing is even better than what Supercars are delivering at the moment. What worries me is that little old NZ can't afford two V8 Classes and the prolonged conflict between NZV8 & ST is no good for anybody... If MSNZ had motorsport interests and the fans interests at heart we would not be in this situation...I suggest Harris, Fine, Fowlke and Tulloch put their own self interests aside and start thinking of the us.. The Fans, because without our support they don't have a mandate to govern.

so you're saying the NZV8 class should end? but wait.. i'm a fan.. i want to see the new gen NZV8 cars race

should the tier 1 series also end? i'm pretty sure ST don't want to run a compact series other the summer.. such is our tier 1 format. which would probably also kill TRS.. as it wouldn't suit the overseas hotshots filling the TRS grids.

if St want to do their own thing.. good on them but there's no need for them to have their own cake.. and eat it.. and eat everyone's elses too.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by promax

if St want to do their own thing.. good on them. but there's no need for them to have their own cake.. and eat it.. and eat everyone's elses too.

Hold on. Who is trying to eat who's lunch?

As I've said before - I don't believe ST has any interest in running championship classes.
The challenge in front of MSNZ is to ensure the costs of competing are contained, the classes are relevent, the grids are full and people want to see them. All classes. Not just one.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point

Your absolutely correct On_to_it... The TV coverage is getting better and better. I watched the racing on MySky Sunday night and was glued to my telle for 3 hours... it was fantastic .. The racing is even better than what Supercars are delivering at the moment. What worries me is that little old NZ can't afford two V8 Classes and the prolonged conflict between NZV8 & ST is no good for anybody... If MSNZ had motorsport interests and the fans interests at heart we would not be in this situation...I suggest Harris, Fine, Fowlke and Tulloch put their own self interests aside and start thinking of the us.. The Fans, because without our support they don't have a mandate to govern.

The NZV8 and ST are boring, comparing this series to Aussies V8 SC races? LOL!
Ive watched this series and yeah some races are pretty good.. at best, but most other times, its so flat and unexciting that I find myself watching days of our lives or reruns of the Antiques Roadshow.

[promax]

days of our lives and the antiques roadshow are boring, comparing these programs to NZ Motorsport? LOL!

[NZSTfan]

I agree with you 100% promax

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Hold on. Who is trying to eat who's lunch?

As I've said before - I don't believe ST has any interest in running championship classes.
The challenge in front of MSNZ is to ensure the costs of competing are contained, the classes are relevent, the grids are full and people want to see them. All classes. Not just one.

you know,its gonna become clear pretty soon that all is not rosy in both camps.........radisich and cherie brown are already gone form V8ST and anyone with a long enough history knows that if you cross the boss or dont agree youre gone(those in the know will get it).........and in the other camp with 5x chassis sold and various people holding back because the same corrupt individuals are still in the newly formed MSP aka TMC re named to put everyone of the scent and in reality not much changed(really feel for Bryan lawrence here coz he's on a hiding to nothing).
surely MNZ-who actually have one or two smart people employed will wake up soon and attempt to put the sport first and sort it out.
we need V8St (minus the boss) spearheading tier 1 with maybe nzv8(remember the structure is quite different) as a main support along with TRS as the big three with a rotating support program and all of a sudden we have big time nz motorsport Back..........
MSP in it 's current form CAN NOT run this series...probably outside nuetral help required.....lets face it the right program will sell itself and needs marketing guidence to reach a bit further.
As it is v8st IS going to emplode at some point with current management and NZV8 is just going to......umm...go nowhere really....