[Team] Team Lotus to confirm name and Renault bits but Grp Lotus start Norfolk Civil War?

[Ralf's Girl]

But surely by that point they had already invested significant resources into building their own car?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

But surely by that point they had already invested significant resources into building their own car?

More than Toyota? I doubt it!

[bjohnsonsmith]

I doubt it as well. Anyway, it looks like HRT are bidding for the TF110.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by wnut

More than Toyota? I doubt it!

That wasn't my point. Irrespective of what Toyota had invested in developing this season's car, if Lotus had started to build their own and then just bought it from Toyota instead, it would have been a waste of their own time and money to start developing a car in the first place.

[bella]

isn't there still a legal case involving lotus racing and the wind tunnel used by themselves and force india or something? i know there was a verdict about a related case reasonably recently.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

That wasn't my point. Irrespective of what Toyota had invested in developing this season's car, if Lotus had started to build their own and then just bought it from Toyota instead, it would have been a waste of their own time and money to start developing a car in the first place.

T'would require knowledge of how far along Lotus were at the time.

Anyway, my point is, isn't a wind tunnel a poor investment at this point in the game?

[duke_toaster]

Renault engines confirmed, RBR also extend deal.

[jab]

There will be a Lotus-Renault on the grid but it will probably not be the Lotus we think

Saward pointed out a week or 2 ago that one of the investors in Renault, a long-time business partner of Gerard Lopez, has links to Malaysia and Proton, and thus it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest Group Lotus could be about to invest in Renault F1. It seems this is true, as Autosport are now reporting this, and that Renault F1 will become Lotus next year, also suggesting that Fernandes has lost the fight

So as it stands, we may have Lotus-Renault and 1Malaysia-Renault

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by jab

There will be a Lotus-Renault on the grid but it will probably not be the Lotus we think

Saward pointed out a week or 2 ago that one of the investors in Renault, a long-time business partner of Gerard Lopez, has links to Malaysia and Proton, and thus it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest Group Lotus could be about to invest in Renault F1. It seems this is true, as Autosport are now reporting this, and that Renault F1 will become Lotus next year, also suggesting that Fernandes has lost the fight

So as it stands, we may have Lotus-Renault and 1Malaysia-Renault

Interesting!

[Down F0rce]

This deal, of course, is separate from Renault supplying Lotus Racing with engines for next year. Lotus - the car company - are looking to expand their presence in motorsports with an IndyCar team, LMP2 and LMGT2 cars, and now a link up with the Renault Formula One team. Who in turn will be supplying Lotus - the F1 team - with engines for next year. Meanwhile, Lotus Cars and Lotus Racing are having a bit of a kerfuffle over the Team Lotus name, previously owned by David Hunt but sold to Lotus Racing.

It'll be interesting to see how Lotus Renault and Lotus Renault compare on track next year. Lotus have really made an impression as one of the new teams, clearly best of the bunch. I can see why Lotus are interested in the link up with Renault though, it makes sense as Renault are a strong team that have lost their way in recent years.

Bruno Senna is set to join Lotus Renault next year. I can't wait to see how he stacks up against Kubica, a very highly rated... no... wait, he's joining Lotus Renault, not Lotus Renault isn't he? In that case he will be against former Kovalainen, who drove for Renault few years ago. It will be great seeing him in a Lotus Renault then. So... he's going back to his old team...? No, he's staying put at Lotus Renault, who of course might be called Team Lotus unless the rights are claimed by Lotus Renault.

I wonder if Trulli loses his Lotus Renault seat to Senna, if he might rejoin his old team Lotus Ren... oh forget it.

[porman]

Sounds like a certain someone has had one too many.

[duke_toaster]

The easiest solution - and best one we could hope for - is Tony Fernandes to buy Group Lotus and just to kill the whole nonsense on the head. Will it happen? Don't bet on it.

[SennaTheGreat]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The easiest solution - and best one we could hope for - is Tony Fernandes to buy Group Lotus and just to kill the whole nonsense on the head. Will it happen? Don't bet on it.

I'd like that to happen myself, plus Lotus Cars will be run from Norwich then and not corprate offices in Malaysia

[Joe Taylor]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...ease-stand-up/

So, the team that returned the Lotus name to F1 and has the blessing of Clive Chapman will no longer be allowed to call themselves Team Lotus, but a car company that has been separate for 40 years is allowed to rebrand the Renault team as Team Lotus. Right...

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Joe Taylor

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...ease-stand-up/

So, the team that returned the Lotus name to F1 and has the blessing of Clive Chapman will no longer be allowed to call themselves Team Lotus, but a car company that has been separate for 40 years is allowed to rebrand the Renault team as Team Lotus. Right...

?!?!? WTF ?!?!?! This is even worse.......

[Asa]

I think Tony Fernandes will call his team Air Asia F1 or Air Asia Racing rather than 1Malaysia Racing. Similar to his GP2 team.

[ASCII Man]

There's a lawsuit still pending in the High Court, but the decision has already been made in Malaysia?
Am I missing something here?

What gives them the right?

[bjohnsonsmith]

So Renault are going to become Lotus? It's like something from Monty Python.

[SennaTheGreat]

I do like Lotus (Team Lotus and Lotus Cars) but if Lotus Racing end up going then Group Lotus can stick it right up there!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

There's a lawsuit still pending in the High Court, but the decision has already been made in Malaysia?
Am I missing something here?

What gives them the right?

Both Group Lotus and Lotus Racing operate on some level out of Malaysia. Unless I have missed something, Proton is still Government controlled. As are the airports used by Air Asia. Ergo, the government department (Group Lotus) prattles on to the Malaysian government that they are being disrespected, and Dr Mahatir (ex-PM) is brought in to resolve the dispute

Personally I dont see the value in a Team Lotus in the green livery, without commercial backing... but Lotus will be a hero brand that has history which can be parlayed

So will Mr Fernandes move the team name to Team Air Asia, or go hunting for another, different name? Team Tyrrell is well known, multiple WDC winner, albeit in a galaxy long long ago... maybe Mercedrs GP could onsell that brand?

[Rgms320]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

There's a lawsuit still pending in the High Court, but the decision has already been made in Malaysia?
Am I missing something here?

What gives them the right?

My guess:

"Hey, Tony... Team Lotus marque. Renault engine supply. Pick one."

[jab]

I'm not really that sympathetic towards Fernandes myself. I've been quite sceptical for a while about how much he really "loves" Lotus - I think it's a bit superficial. He's OK but he's still a businessman first and foremost. He has set out from the beginning to build up a brand - a brand that he didn't even own, no less. I remember the outcry when it was first announced - "Fauxtus" and all that. Yet now people are turning against the car company in favour of him? And there were also rumours, from Jean-Louis Moncet who has been very accurate all through this, that Lotus Racing had lost the backing of Clive Chapman anyway

Fernandes taking the Lotus name is just as much a publicity stunt as Group Lotus - in fact, if I'm honest, I'd say the car company has more of a right to the name than Fernandes because they actually sell Lotus products, while Fernandes is just using the name to gain sponsorship for his team. There's more lineage there back to Chapman himself, if you want to take a historic approach. IMO if the car company want to use the name, then it wouldn't make sense having Team Lotus not promoting Lotus road cars

My only worry is that, long term, I don't like the direction Group Lotus is going in under Bahar and I fear they'll be bankrupt in a few years. But that's a separate issue. For now, we're going to have a properly competitive Lotus outfit for the first time in 20 years with a much greater possibility of that 80th win than was ever going to come with Fernandes outfit - they will make progress but I can't ever see them becoming a regular force at the front, while Renault are a former championship-winning team with a top driver leading them and are more likely to stay at the front and compete for podiums and wins

And I hope Fernandes doesn't call the team 1Malaysia or Team Air Asia - they would both be ghastly

[bella]

Originally Posted by jab

I'm not really that sympathetic towards Fernandes myself. I've been quite sceptical for a while about how much he really "loves" Lotus - I think it's a bit superficial. He's OK but he's still a businessman first and foremost.

Originally Posted by jab

My only worry is that, long term, I don't like the direction Group Lotus is going in under Bahar and I fear they'll be bankrupt in a few years. But that's a separate issue.

both of these points i agree with, but i do believe that lotus racing have earnt the right. they're based in the uk, they have uk people working for them, it just so happens the money comes from malaysia. the only thing i'd say about fernandes is that he hasn't done anything obnoxious with his own companies - take the way mclaren is with vodafone, i don't feel like i'm being advertised to with airasia, or the tune group or anyone, yet i still know the company names... and their principles. interesting.

and i agree entirely with the second point. it just smacks of "anything you can do i can do better".

[duke_toaster]

I tend to agree with you Bella, although I am warmer to Fernandes (yes, we know where he's from, but he is an outstandingly successful businessman that appears to actually care about his team, unlike Richard Branson who appears to have lost interest in Virgin Racing) than the suits in Kuala Lumpur. If Fernandes isn't interfered with by Kuala Lumpur I think he could lead the team onwards to very good things, not in two or three years, but longer term.

[bella]

i don't know about you but i'd struggle to name another malaysian company (not proton) or businessman who has done quite such a good job. the comparison with branson is an interesting one - despite the fact tony fernandes has plenty of businesses to play with, just as many as branson, he does indeed see his team as another one of those businesses not just a toy to play with at the weekends and to improve the status of his other businesses. he's a classic fanboy except he actually owns the team not just the tshirt and cap