ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

What I'm worried about si that the GT field get spilt in two classes for no reason. Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette, Viper, Aston Martin, etc should race together. If GT3 enters ALMS or WEC, then the class should replace GTE.

GT3 sounds like a terrible name for a class when there's no GT1 or GT2. How about renaming it to GTO?

GTO is just as terrible when there is no GTU...

[Fogelhund]

I doubt Alex Job would get involved in any project, without getting paid up front for any costs they might incur. I think the Evora is a safe bet to run the year.

As far as the Viper is concerned, I have been led to believe that it will make it's race debut after LM. When exactly, we don't know, but the car pictured upon introduction, is a finished race car. It is my opinion that they will run the VIR tests (the track is an hour from Riley's shops), and will debut at Lime Rock, if the tests go as planned.

[NaBUru38]

But GTO looks cool. Plus, it actually means Gran Turismo Omologato.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

GTO is just as terrible when there is no GTU...

How about GTS, for "GT Slow"?

[Jonerz]

Newman/Haas ALMS program will happen after all?

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...return-in-2013

Chris

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

But GTO looks cool. Plus, it actually means Gran Turismo Omologato.

Heh, not in IMSA, where it meant GT Over.

[NaBUru38]

The Ferrari 250 GTO was launched in 1962. The IMSA GT Championship was founded in 1971.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The Ferrari 250 GTO was launched in 1962. The IMSA GT Championship was founded in 1971.

Hah, I know, I was just referencing Speed-King's comment that GTO would be useless without GTU.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The Ferrari 250 GTO was launched in 1962. The IMSA GT Championship was founded in 1971.

Where does that put the 64 Pontiac GTO?

[Simmi]

Franck Montagny to Level 5 at Laguna Seca according to DSC. I'd hoped he'd find work somewhere else but that's a good boost for the series.

[Purist]

GTO- Gas, Tire, & Oil.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by Purist

GTO- Gas, Tire, & Oil.

Gym, Tan, Oil?

And no, I don't watch Jersey Shore.

[Deleted]

Dear god, load of BoP adjustments for Laguna...

Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
+0,4mm air restrictor (29,3mm / +0,7mm from base)
+20kg (1220kg / -25kg from base)
+100 height of the rear wing
Front splitter extension & rear wing change

Aston Martin Vantage
-10kg (1185 / -60kg from base)

Lotus Evora
-75kg (1120kg / -125kg from base)

[Deleted]

On a lighter note, there has not been a single adjustment between Dyson and Cytosport as of yet this season - already a huge improvement over last year!

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Dear god, load of BoP adjustments for Laguna...

Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
+0,4mm air restrictor (29,3mm / +0,7mm from base)
+20kg (1220kg / -25kg from base)
+100 height of the rear wing
Front splitter extension & rear wing change

Aston Martin Vantage
-10kg (1185 / -60kg from base)

Lotus Evora
-75kg (1120kg / -125kg from base)

Holy Hell....This is just a big free for all nowadays..
. This is nonsensical...

[TF110]

I don't see a problem with it. Adjust away, they probably wont win anyway (Lotus). At least it may let them be closer in terms of pace.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't see a problem with it. Adjust away, they probably wont win anyway (Lotus). At least it may let them be closer in terms of pace.

Thinking like that just proves why this class is starting to melt down...

[TF110]

You have no clue what I think. Don't take my comment out of context. I was speaking about the Lotus and saying I don't care what the latest BOP is, I'll ignore it and watch the race. That's what most the fanbase does. We can't dictate what they do, so why moan about it?

[Deleted]

Would you say the same if the balancing happened between Toyota and Audi?

[TF110]

Like I said, we can't change anything. Better to get on with it and hope your team does something to better their performance. Be it from BOP or updates or whatever.

[Deleted]

So since we individuals cannot change things we must just surrender, accept it and act like nothing is wrong? Think that what before was a battle between manufacturers and now more of a battle of lobbying better BoP advantages through broken rulebook is the same thing? Pray for better adjustments for our favourite car and opposite for our competitors?

What kind of attitude is that? O.K that might be your view and I suppose you are entitled to it (although I think you wouldn't accept it so easily if Audi today received a random 100kg weight break for Le Mans because *at Spa the hybrid was not on pace of the regular diesels* or something stupid)

[Maelochs]

Seems to me people have been noticing, mentioning, and waiting for a change in the rules which so obviously favored diesels since ... the R10. And since the R10 the problem has been "addressed" and "fixed" annually--to the point that the gap is still three seconds per lap.

I know on RLM the accepted viewpoint is that Audi and Peugeot are/were faster because of huge development, not because of diesel rules breaks---which is why ACO has found it necessary to adjust the rules annually, of course.

The question has been dissected at length in another thread. How does the series stay financially viable, present racing people (not just board anoraks) want to watch, sponsors and manufacturers want to pay for, among wildly disparate cars so that everyone gets an equal chance to win?

Pretty obviously no team is going to show up if winning is out of the question, no matter how long the long shot (ask Jota.)

I am not defending BoP. I am asking what folks suggest.


Some have said "Nothing!!!" which others have suggested would be impractical---major factories aren't investing if they can't at least compete. others have suggested weight and dsiplacement limits, but that doesn't account for vehicle configuration (Murcielago vs. Aston Vantage anyone? Place your bets!)

What I pray for at this point in unbiased balancing---done through analysis of observed performance, not lobbying ability.

I don't see a bunch of "Run what you brung" classes succeeding because some companies build highly stylized decorative display knives and some build machine guns and bazookas.

I am not trying to be "Right" I am hoping some sort of better idea will emerge. I haven't seen it yet.

What we have isn't optimal---still, Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, BMW, Lotus and Aston find it good enough. Anything which "improves" the racing and loses those factories isn't a great "improvement" IMO>

[kyoung]

Wow, GTE becomes GT3.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

So since we individuals cannot change things we must just surrender, accept it and act like nothing is wrong? Think that what before was a battle between manufacturers and now more of a battle of lobbying better BoP advantages through broken rulebook is the same thing? Pray for better adjustments for our favourite car and opposite for our competitors?

What kind of attitude is that? O.K that might be your view and I suppose you are entitled to it (although I think you wouldn't accept it so easily if Audi today received a random 100kg weight break for Le Mans because *at Spa the hybrid was not on pace of the regular diesels* or something stupid)

Keep your arguments. You can't just put words into someone's mouth and assume things. If you can't understand what I'm saying that's fine, but don't make things up and tell me what I think or feel. That's not even holding a conversation. Can you petition the ALMS for doing what they're doing? Can you do something to make the BOP stop? I don't understand why people get worked up over it. You're still going to watch the race. Just realize it's kinda sad things are going the way they are. But then ask yourself if you want to watch a walk every race by the same car? ALMS is in a business to provide a show, not cater to what some people perceive as fairness. Maybe it's sad, but if it's such a big deal to you, do something about it. Don't make things up about how people feel on a forum. I'm just stating the obvious, if things change they'll change. If not maybe look to another series or try to get your thoughts through.

[Maelochs]

I am sorry I have contributed to this discussion because it is on the verge of getting ugly ... in part because of me.

NONE of us like the reliance on BOP, hte politics which warps the actual racing ... even though the politics has always been there (Ferrari canceling the '64 Monza round so race so that the Cobra Daytona wouldn't win the FIA World Championship?)

I agree with Chianna And TF110--it isn't great, and instead of fighting over it, we need to either enjoy what we can or Seriously take action to make changes.

Arguing on 10/10ths doesn't do squat. If someone has a plan to seriously lobby ACO, ALMS, FIA ... petition, open letter needing co-signers ... or if someone knows insiders ... (I don't.)

Since I don't have a plan, i will just watch the races. Irf anyone has a real plan,. please post it here, because i think we would all prefer to see cars raced on mechanical merit, not lobbying support.

In the meantime ... the SRO independent test pilot method seems closest to fair, I guess.