Windscreen Signage

[GTRMagic]

Interesting to read in this week's MeN that Holden is taking a different approach to the signage obligations it is placing on its teams....

It seems that from next year, there will be no compulsion to placing the 'Holden' brand on the windscreen of the cars supported by the factory.

This means that Tasman, BJR, TDR, PWR, Perkins etc will not be forced to carry the Holden logo aboard their chariots, while PMM (thanks to the HPDC), HSVDT & HRT will continue to do so.

Is this the beginning of a pullout for Holden, to perhaps get the teams in place to sell space that they are also paying for, in time for a pull out of team sponsorship in 2010?

It seems strange that the 2 carmakers were busting to get a Ford or Holden sticker on the windscreens of their cars just a few years ago, and now its all not so important.....

... maybe there is more to this "red car" "blue car" thing than meets the eye

[Just Do It!]

This is certainly a more "user friendly" approach than that taken by Team Blue, thus allowing for fund replacement upfront, rather than suffering a cut first.

One might guess that since only two teams in Team Blue will be running windscreen banners (3 if the Ford Whatsitcalled Team actually happens), there is little merit to Holden demanding a continuation in Holden windscreen banners by its teams.

One upon a story, windscreen banners were earning around AUS$300k for a two-car entry at entry level, and this digit could increase depending on the level of input said manufacturer had in driver choice, secondary panel branding, as well as the solidarity of a team's marketing strategy.

In the future, perhaps the signage is best used deriving an income from non-manufacturer types, but surely it also allows for a wee bit of ambush marketing, with say $500k a year coming to a two-car team for carrying slogans such as "3 VW Polos inside" or "Don't you wish you had a Mitsubishi?"

[GTRMagic]

That the landing is softer does not reduce the pain of the potential new reality... if the carmaker is spending $1m a car on some teams for the space on the windscreen, it is highly doubtful a commercial sponsor would be willing to stump up that kind of sponduli for those square inches.....

[Trevor]

I have said it a 100 times, bring the sport back to production car racing so that they can afford to continue to play the game.

GT's versus Clubsports is the way to go, use the V8Utes are guidance for equity.

Same teams, same drivers, same sponsors all equals the same but different.

[paydirt]

[QUOTE=Big_Trev]I have said it a 100 times, bring the sport back to production car racing so that they can afford to continue to play the game.


Glenn Seton said ( a few years back ) "... even if we were all racing HQ
Holdens as the main category, we would still find ways to spend millions on them...."

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

I have said it a 100 times, bring the sport back to production car racing so that they can afford to continue to play the game.

GT's versus Clubsports is the way to go, use the V8Utes are guidance for equity.

Same teams, same drivers, same sponsors all equals the same but different.

No thanks, I rather keep what we have already.. Production based racing is not something that will get alot of support as our top level of motorsport in this country..

[RotorFan]

Why do you say that St00ge? We keep being told that it is the drivers and teams that people follow, not the cars... and that us "punters" don't care whether the cars run sequential or H-patten, or whether they have control brakes, chassis or engines...

If we're not smart enough to comprehend or be interested in these things, why not run production cars?

At least then it has more translation for us simple folk who need to be told what car to buy.

[mountainstar]

Going back on topic, seeing that we have other threads dealing with production car racing replacing V8's, I think Ford and Holden should cut out all the handouts with a few exceptions and go to an incentive based system.

I know it goes against the culture down there to have incentives like prize money and contingency money but I think that is best for all. My idea would be for Ford and Holden to make available body shells, engine parts and other materials either free or subsidized.

Contingency money would be paid to teams down to certain placings per race with the significant portion going to the highest placed team. Say the highest finishing Holden gets 3rd place. It's the top Holden team for the race, so it gets the 1st place money from Holden for being the top Holden team. Then you would pay out descending sums down to maybe 5th place or whatever.

Drivers would get a share of the contingency or prize money. Drivers would get a daily fee for each day of promo work rather than a flat contracts. Drivers would each get a loaner car from each manufacturer. Drivers could still have their usually salary type contract with a team.

I think the way Holden and Ford have been doing it just writing checks out every year to teams and drivers is literally ****ing money down the drain. I'd cut the welfare out, put the incentives in and the best teams and drivers will rise to the top and it will be a major fight on the track to earn their bread.

In the USA, sometimes a manufacturer will commission a team and give them a budget to run a car, but increasingly and across ALL American motorsports contingency funds rule the day(even down to the bottoms of club racing and oval racing). It rewards the best teams and drivers and cuts out the mediocrity.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by St00ge

No thanks, I rather keep what we have already.. Production based racing is not something that will get alot of support as our top level of motorsport in this country..

And what happens when "what we have now" falls over, which it will.

[Green Hornet]

Some people have been saying it will "falls over, which it will" for nearly 16 years now.

And some people forget why we moved away from production cars in the first place.

Lets see now - Appendix J to the end of '64, Improved Touring 8 years, Group C 12 years, Group A 8 years, Super Touring 10 minutes, V8 Supercars . . . 16th year and still going.

[GTRMagic]

Its not a question of "falling over" merely that there is likely to be a reinvention stage at some point where the existing strategy and outlook may be tweaked/overhauled, to change the vehicles in use... like series production to Group C to Group A to V8Supercar... evolution.

Meantime.... back on topic, in other categories, the series sponsors are sometimes found on the windscreens of cars... whereas.. whoops, sorry, I forgot, there are no series sponsors, only platform partners

More seriously, the local GT series has race sponsor names on windscreens, as do the Nationwide series in NASCAR.... so why wouldnt an industrious enterprise such as VESA take the change in thought from Ford and Holden as being an opportunity... and go do a deal with a sponsor to take every windscreen in the category??

Maybe they could 'up' the sanction fee such that the race sponsor could take the windscreen space?? With the teams recompensed accordingly of course.

The other advantage to doing that would be around being able to tell which round the pics of the cars were taken at... with the brand on the windscreen the giveaway.

Could become VESA's latest moneyspinner?

[Just Do It!]

More free consultancy from GTRMagic Enterprises.....the windscreen one is a brilliant idea. You would then need a naming rights sponsor for each event, but isn't that how it should be?

30 cars x $250k per windscreen per annum / 15 events = $500k per event

It's possible, but maybe bypass the sanction fee concept and make it a stand-alone sponsor for each event, which keeps it lean and clean from series and event sponsor cloudiness.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Contingency money would be paid to teams down to certain placings per race with the significant portion going to the highest placed team. Say the highest finishing Holden gets 3rd place. It's the top Holden team for the race, so it gets the 1st place money from Holden for being the top Holden team. Then you would pay out descending sums down to maybe 5th place or whatever.

Great idea, and not wishing to put a socialist (parity ) spin on the whole concept, but why not pay out in reverse?

The reason for this is the winner clearly isn't struggling for funding on the "dollars in equals results out" theory. What it does mean is the guy who has a stack, and often there is more than at least one relatively innocent party involved, so they get additional funds to help the repairs along.

The car that finishes mid-pack gets budget assistance that may let them move forward if it used wisely, and the car that finishes last gets the biggest help because it probably needs it.

Going back a while, Ross Cadell pitched a concept on here that involved "taxing and redistributing" budgets over a certain dollar figure and sharing that among the teams who didn't reach the income cap.
This was arguably a novel and achievable idea that would have created a level playing field.

A level playing field is what V8 Supercars tries to seek through parity adjustments, and surely budgets and contingency funds make up a part of that.

[Pro Racer]

silent and less ballsy version of the Ford cut IMO.

[MPA]

Originally Posted by Green Hornet

Some people have been saying it will "falls over, which it will" for nearly 16 years now.

And some people forget why we moved away from production cars in the first place.

Lets see now - Appendix J to the end of '64, Improved Touring 8 years, Group C 12 years, Group A 8 years, Super Touring 10.5 minutes, V8 Supercars . . . 16th year and still going.

True in some respects. But V8SC's are not 16 years old...maybe just ten, or so they claim. Although you do raise a point, every category had a use by date and has been replaced by something better and new.

Perhaps that's a subject for discussion.

Will V8SC fall over? Will V8SCs last forever? What will come next?


My thoughts..... V8SC will only die when the money runs out. And the fans will have little say in it.

When sponsors pull the plug, manufacturers loose interest and Govts stop bankrolling events, then things might change. Until then, enjoy the racing.

I will.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

Great idea, and not wishing to put a socialist (parity ) spin on the whole concept, but why not pay out in reverse?

The reason for this is the winner clearly isn't struggling for funding on the "dollars in equals results out" theory. What it does mean is the guy who has a stack, and often there is more than at least one relatively innocent party involved, so they get additional funds to help the repairs along.

The car that finishes mid-pack gets budget assistance that may let them move forward if it used wisely, and the car that finishes last gets the biggest help because it probably needs it.

Going back a while, Ross Cadell pitched a concept on here that involved "taxing and redistributing" budgets over a certain dollar figure and sharing that among the teams who didn't reach the income cap.
This was arguably a novel and achievable idea that would have created a level playing field.

A level playing field is what V8 Supercars tries to seek through parity adjustments, and surely budgets and contingency funds make up a part of that.

I don't think you inspire excellence by championing mediocrity.

Lets take the budgets for starters. If one could confiscate sponsorship funds over a certain amount for redistribution, then why would the teams that could source those funds bother with doing so as any excess funds would be taken from them? Doesn't make a lick of sense. I don't think it's either novel or achievable.

Second if there was an extreme financial result from finishing last then why put any effort in? Just run an old banger around for a few years with confiscated budgets from other teams, cashing in every weekend and then retire to the mountains or the beach. What a deal.

Life is unfair, motor racing is unfair. Life has ups and downs and so does motor racing. Having fair rules is great, but non-parity is what motor racing is about.