Audi LMP1 Discussion

[chernaudi]

The discription of the front and rear suspension originally was posted at Joest Racing's site, and since then has probably proliferated onto other Audi websites, though I can't find much on the new R18s at Audi of America's site or Audi's main worldwide site.

[FstrthnU]

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...uit-_7185.html

News for the e-tron, ACO posted the braking zones for Le Mans. 7 zones in total

[gwyllion]

Earlier in this thread, we tried to determine the number of KERS activation points at Le Mans and we counted 8 heavy braking zones.

Originally Posted by knighty

very interesting!!........so we were not far off I think we said 17 harvesting points and 10 boost points.........17 and 8 it is!!!!......

Audi also revealed that the braking zones after which the hybrid system is allowed to be activated, is strictly determined by the ACO/FIA.

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The latest Audi Sport press release confirms that the FIA defines where the hybrid system can be activated.

source: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html

According to http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...uit-_7185.html the ACO/FIA has defined 7 zones where the hybrid system can be used at Le Mans.

The braking for the Porsche curves (zone #6) is probably insufficient to fully charge the hybrid system.

[gwyllion]

FstrthnU beat me with his post.

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The braking for the Porsche curves (zone #6) is probably insufficient to fully charge the hybrid system.

On http://www.audi-liveracing.com/deskt...e-circuits.jsp Audi indicates the speed and gear of all corners at Le Mans.


This figure can be used as an indication to determine how heavy the braking is and whether Audi can activate the hybrid directly inside the corner.

• zone #1: 275 -> 100 km/h
• zone #2: 320 -> 105 km/h
• zone #3: 315 -> 105 km/h
• zone #4: 320 -> 85 km/h
• zone #5: 315 -> 110 -> 75 km/h
• zone #6: 300 -> 210 km/h
• zone #7: 280 -> 115 km/h

[Creep89]

Braking Point #6 is quite ridiculous.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Creep89

Braking Point #6 is quite ridiculous.

The whole idea of defining where the system can be used is ridiculous. Sounds almost like F1.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

The whole idea of defining where the system can be used is ridiculous. Sounds almost like F1.

It has been in the rules for many years. The braking must be more than 2G and longer than 1 second. I guess that the 7 zones meant those requirements.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

It has been in the rules for many years. The braking must be more than 2G and longer than 1 second. I guess that the 7 zones meant those requirements.

So if you have to stomp on the brakes outside those zones (say, on a straight) because someone crashes in front of you, can you charge and use the system or not?

[TF110]

Perhaps if they save some 'juice' from Indianapolis they can combine it with the slightl recharge before the Porsche curves.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

Perhaps if they save some 'juice' from Indianapolis they can combine it with the slightl recharge before the Porsche curves.

That would mean almost double the size of flywheel accumulator. The benefits (i.e., a bit longer hybrid activation after zone #6) probably do not compensate the drawbacks (e.g., more weight increasing the center-of-gravity and ruining the weight distribution, additional cooling demands, etc.).

We already saw at Spa that the difference between the ultra and the e-tron quattro is very small. A bigger flywheel of the e-tron quattro could swing the balance in the direction of the ultra.

[gwyllion]

Paul Truswell has some interesting statistics about the crew of the #2 Audi: http://trussers.blogspot.com/2012/05/tempting-fate.html

I realised this week that if the number 2 Audi should win at Le Mans in just over two weeks time, not only would Dindo Capello have the honour of winning the big race on his birthday, but also he would become the oldest ever winner.

Capello, Kristensen and McNish will have 100 years racing experience all together and this year is the 7th time that they will share a car at Le Mans.

[the.cosmic.pope]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Paul Truswell has some interesting statistics about the crew of the #2 Audi: http://trussers.blogspot.com/2012/05/tempting-fate.html
Capello, Kristensen and McNish will have 100 years racing experience all together and this year is the 7th time that they will share a car at Le Mans.

Is 7 times not also a record for a team of drivers?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by the.cosmic.pope

Is 7 times not also a record for a team of drivers?

7 is also Tom Ks lucky number!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

That would mean almost double the size of flywheel accumulator. The benefits (i.e., a bit longer hybrid activation after zone #6) probably do not compensate the drawbacks (e.g., more weight increasing the center-of-gravity and ruining the weight distribution, additional cooling demands, etc.).

We already saw at Spa that the difference between the ultra and the e-tron quattro is very small. A bigger flywheel of the e-tron quattro could swing the balance in the direction of the ultra.

What're you meaning I'm saying instead of releasing all of the energy stored from the braking zone of Indianapolis (if this is possible) they could have leftover energy recovered (that wasn't fully used) to add to the slight energy recovered at the shallow braking of the beginning of the Porsche curves. This would be like adding 2+2 to equal 4 out 5. So if they recover '5' as a total and only use '2'. That's what I'm getting at. I don't know if this is even possible, which is why I asked.

[gwyllion]

The hybrid systems are not designed to have "leftover energy". They recover and store 500 kJ during braking and release it all immediately during acceleration.

After zone #5 the car will accelerate from 75 km/h (Arnage) to 300 km/h. During that acceleration the 500 kJ will be released fully.

In order to have leftover energy, the energy storage device (flywheel accumulator, battery, supercapacitors) would have to have a bigger capacity. And this would make the hybrid system heavier, which is bad for handling, etc.

My point was that it is not worth the effort to design a hybrid system with leftover energy. The car could be carrying the additional, badly positioned, weight of bigger energy storage device just for 1 out of 7 braking zones.

At Spa the difference in performance between the e-tron quattro and the ultra was already very small. Audi's simulations suggest that the hybrid car will have a clear advantage at Le Mans. A heavier hybrid system with overdimensioned flywheel accumulator could even swing the advantage back in the direction of the ultra.

[gwyllion]

A nice PR article describing the technological innovation (e.g., the VTG turbo) in the Audi V6 TDI engine: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html

Two cool pictures from the engine:



On the first picture (on the test bench) the gearbox casing is from aluminium, so that might be a picture from last year.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

A nice PR article describing the technological innovation (e.g., the VTG turbo) in the Audi V6 TDI engine: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html

Two cool pictures from the engine:



On the first picture (on the test bench) the gearbox casing is from aluminium, so that might be a picture from last year.

I've never seen a double entry turbo like that one. Anyone know if they're out there or is this a audi (borg warner) invention?
Also pretty interesting to see the 120 degree V angle on that v6. It's not something new but it's also not something you see very often...

[chernaudi]

Audi's racing turbochargers have been always developed by Garrett/Honeywell for their Le Mans cars and Garrett is a leading supplier and developer of VTG turbos for diesel engines.

[gwyllion]

BTW a year ago I already noticed that the turbo has two entries: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...99#post2900299

This is a picture of the compressor side of the R18 turbocharger. Also note the box on top which control the turning of the VTG vanes.


For the fans, higher resolution versions of the first two pictures:

[Creep89]

Isn't Audi afraid somebody could learn from these pictures?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Creep89

Isn't Audi afraid somebody could learn from these pictures?

No. Audi is the only diesel manufacture.
So by the time someone uses these images to create their own diesel engine, the techs in this engine is almost obsolete.

Besides what can be gained from this type of image is limited, compared to what we already know.

[Creep89]

Ah ok. Thanks for information

[ronnie peterson]

Gené replaces Bernhard for Le Mans 24 Hours.

https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html

[BSchneiderFan]

Bad luck for poor Timo, but at least Audi gets a replacement with Le Mans-winning history in the person of Gené. It's a very strong line-up across the four cars.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

BTW a year ago I already noticed that the turbo has two entries: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...99#post2900299

This is a picture of the compressor side of the R18 turbocharger. Also note the box on top which control the turning of the VTG vanes.


For the fans, higher resolution versions of the first two pictures:

An amazing set of pictures, I'm surprised they released those.......good find gwyllion!.......generally speaking many twin turbo engines are now switching to single turbo for the reason of fuel economy and reduced emissions, quite simply it reduces the back pressure and temperature in the exhaust turbine system and creates a higher flow in the exhaust gas, this allows the compressor side of the turbo to be better sized in the higher efficiency islands of the compressor map resulting in better combustion of the fuel/air mix, the net result is there is about 5% fuel economy save for the user, hence Garrett now offer quite a few jazzy (twin inlet/outlet) single turbos for larger engines that would normally be double turbo.........as coincidence would have it, I am actually working on one of these projects for an OEM, the results so far are very encouraging as the 5% fuel save also transpires into a similar emissions reduction which reduces the amount of vehicle tax payable by a notiocable amount.