GRD 372 and 374 - Page 2

Chris Townsend · 28 Sep 2004, 11:26 (Ref:1109207)

Nick

In the history you've managed to gather for the Watson car, do the names of Adrian Russell or Terry Fisher crop up? Both these guys had BDA engined GRD 372s and there weren't that many in existence in the UK. One is probably Robin Smythe's late season F3 converted to Atlantic in 1973 and the other could well be yours.

Chris

Dan Rear · 4 Oct 2004, 13:50 (Ref:1114898)

I recall the Fisher car occasionlly in Indylantic over here in '76. I presumed this was the one Russell later used in Libre, from 77 onwards, before he got his Lola. Also, Alan Clennell had one about this time, was this the same as the Fisher/Russell car ?

Chris Townsend · 4 Oct 2004, 16:10 (Ref:1115011)

Wasn't Clennell running on the hills?
The problem is that the Fisher and Russell cars appear together in 76, or at least in the same entry list so have to have different provenances.

The Watson car would be one likely source of a BDA engined GRD, the converted F3 car of Smythe is likely to be the other

Chris

Dan Rear · 14 Oct 2004, 17:28 (Ref:1124491)

Chris, Clennell entered in a 'GRD B73 1600 BDA' at Mallory April 76, and started evidently. Also entered at S'stone, 4-7-76, the "John Lepp/Ensign lap record" race. Don't know whether he started. Next I have him entered at Mall agian on July 25, also that race, Russell entered in a 'GRD372 Swindon 1600'. Russell finished 5th, no knowledge of Clennell. AR definitely started the Indylantic at Mall that year, in the 372, no other GRD entries.

In early 77 I have AR in the Lola T450/460 at S'stone in April, no mention of any GRD. That June M Watson is out in a 'GRDB72 1600', same race AR in the Lola again.

Finally that year, Mall on Sept 18, has AR in the Lola, Watson in his 'B72', and, at last, Fisher in a '372 Swindon'.

So... I reckon the Russell car was the one that Fisher later had, and the Watson one is completely separate. I don't see that the Clennell one goes to AR, TF or MW. is this clear? !!!

Chris Townsend · 14 Oct 2004, 18:38 (Ref:1124562)

Don't you just hate it when history refuses to conform to theory!

Dan, many thanks. Didn't realise that Watson kept his car so long. That takes it right out of the equation as you say.

I now know that Clennell's car was 054, actually a 273, originally run for Kazato and McInerney in F2 and then used by Chris Oates and various rentadrivers in Atlantic in 73. He kept it until at least 1978.

The problem now is that we have two BDA engined "372s" going in 1976 which are distinct entities, in addition to the Watson car.
We have Russell and Dave Saunders, who appears in Indyatlantic at the same time as Russell. Now unless Saunders borrows Clennell's car - which is a possibility - there are another car in circulation.
The other question is one of misattribution. I don't know what happened to Doug Thompson's 273-051 [an ex Williamson car] after 1974. Does anyone know what became of this one?

Dan Rear · 18 Oct 2004, 10:00 (Ref:1127151)

Chris, re Scottish GRDs. I presume 'Robin Smythe' was actually our old mate Robin Smith, of Smith & Jones fame ? I remember the Doug Thomson car from reports, I think his backer was "Thistle Metallics" a very evocative name I always thought !

RAP · 26 Oct 2004, 12:38 (Ref:1136407)

Interesting about Roger Williamson's car.Is the chassis number of the genuine one known?

Chris Townsend · 26 Oct 2004, 15:12 (Ref:1136644)

Which Williamson car?
The F2s 273s used in 1973 were 051 and 052. We know 051 was Thompson's
At the end of 1972 he ran 272 016 [ex Kazato] in an Atlantic race.
We don't know [yet...] the chassis number of the 372 Wheatcroft ran in 1972
but Williamson ran 372 - 010 at Silverstone in May, the day after the Monaco meeting - this being the works spare and described in press as the prototype car - and at Oulton in August he again ran GRS's spare car, which we don't know the chassis number of.

RAP · 26 Oct 2004, 19:15 (Ref:1136991)

Chris. Thanks for the reply. I was actually refering to the post by Bryan Miller about the car in the Donington museum, having only just caught up with reading this thread.

Chris Townsend · 2 Nov 2004, 12:01 (Ref:1142787)

Might this be the first Williamson F3 car, the 372 run by Wheatcroft?
In 1975 Richard Wallinger appears in F. Libre races in a 372 with a BDA engine. The car is red and white - as the Wheatcroft car was - and Wallinger came from Hinkley in Leicestershire which is, I think, within shouting distance of Donington. Quite what he'd be doing with it, since Wheatcroft had his museum up and running for a while by then and presumably wanted to show Williamson's car, is another matter.
Dan! This one is in your area, know anything about Wallinger?

Dan Rear · 3 Nov 2004, 13:21 (Ref:1143804)

Chris, I recall Wallinger as being a 1-litre Saloon man, with an Anglebox I think, then a 'wild' Imp of some sort. You're right re Hinckley/Donington, they're about 15 miles apart. Whether Dick W ever had any connexion with Tom W I don't know I'm afraid. From dim and distant, did that Libre GRD have a really outlandish rear wing, hung out miles the car? This doesn't really help I know on the link between his and the Williamson car, but good memories all the same !

bobdar · 13 Nov 2004, 03:07 (Ref:1152152)

Nick: With respect to Alex Ribeiro's 374, I believe that I have that car in the US, and am interested in comparing our respective histories. My 374 traces back to Jim Fikse of Seattle. Fikse first had conversations with Tom Wheatcroft about the car, although it actually belonged to Brian Henton, and understood it to be Ribeiro's '74 GRD (which took 6th place at Monaco); I believe Wheatcroft was merely a match-maker in the deal. The car was imported by Michael Gue, who remembers the transaction and confirms all this. I later spoke with Alex Ribeiro in San Paulo, who explained the situation: Alex and Brian Henton had finished the '74 season, Alex was heading to March for 1975. Brian wanted to buy Alex's transporter; Alex was willing to sell, and Brian eventually bought the transporter, including Alex's GRD 374 and all the spares. Fikse went on to convert the car to FC SCCA Specs (1100 cc BDJ Cosworth).

I later sent pictures of the car to Peter Denty. Peter confirms the car as a '74 chassis but with some "upgrades" to the front suspension. Peter recalls that these "upgrades" were put on Alex's car during the '74 season, as he was the only GRD driver with a shot at beating Henton, so the factory was supporting him to some extent. Peter is fairly certain that my 374 is the Ribeiro car. The chassis is presently in the configuration that Alex ran the latter part of the '74 season: "upgraded" ('75) front upper A-arms, '75 sportcar nose, "cone" housing for the rear wing support; these details can be seen on the F3 History site photos.

Nick, I'd like to hear your evidence so that we may settle this question.

Bob Darcey
Colorado, USA

fines · 14 Nov 2004, 16:53 (Ref:1153271)

I can confirm that Henton owned the Ribeiro 374 in 1975, it ran with Derek Cook in Monaco and Mike Tyrrell at Brands the next weekend.

Chris Townsend · 15 Nov 2004, 13:58 (Ref:1153999)

In 1996 a GRD with the plate 72-030-FB was sold at Coys Silverstone.

This number was noted by Adam Ferrington on an F3 car raced by Ian Taylor and Barrie Maskell in 1972, a car which was retained by John Stanton in 1973 and then sold to Rod Smith.

Does anyone know where the car is now?
Does anyone have the Coys catalogue with any history of the car
Why had it got an FB designation on the plate?

bobdar · 27 Nov 2004, 02:26 (Ref:1165353)

I have an engine question: the '74 F3 engine rules allowed 2 liter displacement, and many cars used Novamotor-prepped engines with Lotus T/C heads and sandwich plates to accept the longer stroke required. Question is, what bore and stroke was commonly used, and what was the thickness of the sandwich plate? Also, I see some 1974 results at F3 History describing some motors as "Pinto"; was the 2 liter overhead-cam Pinto used in F3 in 1974??

jreminga · 24 Dec 2004, 19:21 (Ref:1187597)

Does anyone have information on GRD 272 - 019 - F2?

Thanks!
Jim

bobdar · 25 Dec 2004, 00:47 (Ref:1187702)

This thread http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61248
has some great info on GRD chassis numbers. Probably more than a few of us interested.

Snowy · 1 Jan 2005, 17:49 (Ref:1191138)

Chris,
I have just purchased GRD 272-019-F2 which is the McConnell original car from the second owner (bought from McConnell in 1978). It has the log book etc.
I will be restoring it.
Mike

Michael Oliver · 1 Jan 2005, 21:36 (Ref:1191261)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowy

Chris,
I have just purchased GRD 272-019-F2 which is the McConnell original car from the second owner (bought from McConnell in 1978). It has the log book etc.
I will be restoring it.
Mike

Mike,

You might also want to post this message in the Mo Harness GRD Leabro thread, as there has been lots of discussion about the McConnell car and whether or not it was 272-019 or not (although I'm sure Chris will see this thread too!).

Good luck with the restoration and shall we see it back on the tracks? Are you in the UK or US/Canada?

(Thread now closed; please see here:- http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...14#post1553614)