V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow' - Page 16

Goat Boy · 24 Jul 2011, 11:09 (Ref:2930371)

I think you would be surprised at how cost effective the V8ST package will be.

Spotted KC at the NZV8 stand on Sat, gave him a nod but he hurriedly looked the other way like he always used to

**FIRE** · 24 Jul 2011, 12:14 (Ref:2930383)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The thing I don't get about V8 ST is why they didn't also source a Ford crate engine because I'm having a hard time seeing a Ford Falcon FG with a GM bred motor in it.

GM crate engine despite a Ford or Dodge body, isn't that a common thing in late model racing?

MacrosNZ · 24 Jul 2011, 12:21 (Ref:2930385)

The thing is... Is there a Ford based engine for around he same price that has the same power and torque characteristics with the same reliablilty?

mountainstar · 24 Jul 2011, 18:26 (Ref:2930475)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

The thing is... Is there a Ford based engine for around he same price that has the same power and torque characteristics with the same reliablilty?

You can get a sealed new Ford Boss 351 racing engine direct from Ford Racing USA for $11,000 US$. 540HP.

I'm sure there are other options out there as well, so I just don't buy that there isn't ANY Ford options out there and it is just something totally impossible.

mountainstar · 24 Jul 2011, 18:27 (Ref:2930476)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

GM crate engine despite a Ford or Dodge body, isn't that a common thing in late model racing?

Have no idea as I don't follow late model racing closely at all. However I can ask a friend of mine in that runs a whole fleet of them for customers in the deep south USA.

Goat Boy · 24 Jul 2011, 20:16 (Ref:2930528)

I've been told that the reason they went for the unit they did was because they had looked long and hard at various engine packages but in the end they went with "the very best engine they could buy on a bang for buck basis and only Chev made an off the shelf dry sumped engine."

So there's your reason

FraserGT · 24 Jul 2011, 20:26 (Ref:2930540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

The thing is... Is there a Ford based engine for around he same price that has the same power and torque characteristics with the same reliablilty?

Where does this supposed reliability of the GM product come from? The engine in the ST is not the LS7.R - it is a stock standard road going LS7 with a few modifications.

Don't get me wrong, the LS7 is still a bloody nice engine - but it is not the same as what has run in the factory Corvettes at Le Mans and other endurance races.

The LS7.R runs through a pair of air restrictors which limit the engines ability to rev, hence the engine is designed to now run up to about 5800rpm (might even be lower now).

MacrosNZ · 24 Jul 2011, 20:32 (Ref:2930546)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You can get a sealed new Ford Boss 351 racing engine direct from Ford Racing USA for $11,000 US$. 540HP.

That would have different mass and performance characteristics to the ls7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I'm sure there are other options out there as well, so I just don't buy that there isn't ANY Ford options out there and it is just something totally impossible.

How can you be sure?

Goat Boy · 24 Jul 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2930553)

I just gave you the reason 3 posts ago...

mountainstar · 25 Jul 2011, 01:19 (Ref:2930677)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

That would have different mass and performance characteristics to the ls7.

How can you be sure?

Dunno, bazillions of other championships out there in the world have run GM and Ford engines going back to the stone ages with no real issues other than the standard rivalry.

The 351 might not be the same size, but my point is there are or were other options out there.

But they can do what they want.

Goat Boy · 25 Jul 2011, 01:39 (Ref:2930681)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Dunno, bazillions of other championships out there in the world have run GM and Ford engines going back to the stone ages with no real issues other than the standard rivalry.

The 351 might not be the same size, but my point is there are or were other options out there.

But they can do what they want.

Read my post from earlier today - that was the reason.

They wanted the best bang for the buck engine and GM were the only off the shelf dry sump unit. What else do you want for a reason?

promax · 25 Jul 2011, 02:06 (Ref:2930684)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Dunno, bazillions of other championships out there in the world have run GM and Ford engines going back to the stone ages with no real issues other than the standard rivalry.

The 351 might not be the same size, but my point is there are or were other options out there.

But they can do what they want.

agree!

FraserGT · 25 Jul 2011, 02:50 (Ref:2930688)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Read my post from earlier today - that was the reason.

They wanted the best bang for the buck engine and GM were the only off the shelf dry sump unit. What else do you want for a reason?

There are dry sump systems and dry sump systems. The dry sump on the LS7 is there partly to drop the engine centre of gravity so it will fit under the bonnet line of the Corvette.

The Corvette race cars do not run the same dry sump system as the road cars.

Katech, who used to run the factory GM engine programme, have a couple of dry sump kits for the LS7 "for vehicles that exceed the cornering capability of the factory Z06 such as cars with coil-overs and slicks".

We used one of their dynos last year and the stuff they do to LS series road and race engines is impressive.

Goat Boy · 25 Jul 2011, 03:02 (Ref:2930692)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraserGT

There are dry sump systems and dry sump systems. The dry sump on the LS7 is there partly to drop the engine centre of gravity so it will fit under the bonnet line of the Corvette.

The Corvette race cars do not run the same dry sump system as the road cars.

Katech, who used to run the factory GM engine programme, have a couple of dry sump kits for the LS7 "for vehicles that exceed the cornering capability of the factory Z06 such as cars with coil-overs and slicks".

We used one of their dynos last year and the stuff they do to LS series road and race engines is impressive.

I guess that cost must have been the overriding issue there.

mountainstar · 25 Jul 2011, 04:26 (Ref:2930702)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Read my post from earlier today - that was the reason.

They wanted the best bang for the buck engine and GM were the only off the shelf dry sump unit. What else do you want for a reason?

What else do I want? I want a Ford engine.

I thought Ford V8's had been in racing since 1930, but I guess I was wrong.

Like I said they can do what they want. I'm just a driver, not a political public relations mechanical engineer series organizer.

Goat Boy · 25 Jul 2011, 04:58 (Ref:2930708)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

What else do I want? I want a Ford engine.

I thought Ford V8's had been in racing since 1930, but I guess I was wrong.

Like I said they can do what they want. I'm just a driver, not a political public relations mechanical engineer series organizer.

Ha ha, very good

Here's another reason - you've seen the disparity between the Fords and Holdens in the NZV8's for the past 5 years - they still have not sorted that by a long way, but I guess doing it this way it's not an issue and you get super close racing right out of the box. It's just the way your team sets your car up and your abilities as a driver that make the difference.

promax · 25 Jul 2011, 05:12 (Ref:2930709)

is that the best you could come up with?

next they'll be using the same body to keep the cars even lol just paint the Holdens red, the Fords blue and the Kias green

DX20VT · 25 Jul 2011, 06:22 (Ref:2930720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

is that the best you could come up with?

next they'll be using the same body to keep the cars even lol just paint the Holdens red, the Fords blue and the Kias green

Isn't that what they are doing anyway? You'll probably find that apart from different wings and bumpers the cars are the same anyway.
Makes it easy for parity.

They'll still be referred to as a holden of a ford,
when in fact they are neither. Grouind built cars that are not made from a Holden Or a Ford Bodyshell, Engine from one brand, diff from another,
once they are racing on the track the only thing that matter is the sticker on the grill really to the average person.

FraserGT · 25 Jul 2011, 06:22 (Ref:2930721)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

is that the best you could come up with?

next they'll be using the same body to keep the cars even lol just paint the Holdens red, the Fords blue and the Kias green

If the Holdens are red, what colour would the Toyotas be?

Goat Boy · 25 Jul 2011, 06:45 (Ref:2930725)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DX20VT

Isn't that what they are doing anyway? You'll probably find that apart from different wings and bumpers the cars are the same anyway.
Makes it easy for parity.

They'll still be referred to as a holden of a ford,
when in fact they are neither. Grouind built cars that are not made from a Holden Or a Ford Bodyshell, Engine from one brand, diff from another,
once they are racing on the track the only thing that matter is the sticker on the grill really to the average person.

Exactly!!

promax · 25 Jul 2011, 07:18 (Ref:2930731)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraserGT

If the Holdens are red, what colour would the Toyotas be?

Toyota white

promax · 25 Jul 2011, 07:21 (Ref:2930734)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Exactly!!

strange that you don't share the same view when it comes to a NZV8

on_to_it · 25 Jul 2011, 09:16 (Ref:2930779)

How the worm can turn! I have been a big fan of this whole SuperTourer concept from the start, but the more I hear and see, the less I think there is to like. I have just seen photos on their Facebook page and I couldn't help feeling it just didn't sit right with me. I respect the senior drivers confirmed for the series so far on merit, but there they were lined up with some other 'drivers' signing posters for a series that has one prototype, has not run a race yet and in the minds of some perhaps, might not even pull that off. Something about all that says 'wrong'.

Goat Boy · 25 Jul 2011, 09:41 (Ref:2930794)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

strange that you don't share the same view when it comes to a NZV8

But I do! The parity issue is the one that needed sorting big time, and this solves that. The other issue is that the NZV8's were looking decidedly geriatric, and this solves that too - so not sure what you mean?

There was some close racing in the NZV8s - if you drove a Ford...

MarioNZ · 25 Jul 2011, 09:49 (Ref:2930798)

Quote:

Originally Posted by on_to_it

How the worm can turn! I have been a big fan of this whole SuperTourer concept from the start, but the more I hear and see, the less I think there is to like. I have just seen photos on their Facebook page and I couldn't help feeling it just didn't sit right with me. I respect the senior drivers confirmed for the series so far on merit, but there they were lined up with some other 'drivers' signing posters for a series that has one prototype, has not run a race yet and in the minds of some perhaps, might not even pull that off. Something about all that says 'wrong'.

I've stayed out of here coz I really have no desire to get involved in all this yucky arguing but OTI I really can't grasp what you're saying?? You now don't like the Tourers because they had some younger drivers signing posters alongside the 'Names' on their stand?? That's just weird dude!

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