1958 BMC rally team

[riley1.5]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum - and already I'm after some help/info!!

I currently building a replica of the Riley One-Point-Five works rally cars - slightly different I know - but there are loads of Healey and Mini replicas, so I thought I would stick out from the crowd

However there is a distinct lack of info on these cars ..... all I know is there was a team of three green One-Point-Fives prepared and rallied by the BMC Comps Dept. Drivers included Pat Moss, Nancy Mitchell and John Gott. Events included the Monte, RAC and Tulip rallies of '58.

Can anybody out there help ??
Any help would be greatly appreciated - photos or anything!

Cheers,

Roger

[MGDavid]

there's just one pic in 'Works Wonders' - Marcus Chambers' autobiography - and it looks very standard ! There may be some mentions in the text but annoyingly my hardback copy has no index...

[chunterer]

Welcome Roger, and thankyou MGDavid for that info.

I hope we can help you further Roger.

[riley1.5]

Thanks guys.

I have seen the pic in 'Works Wonders' - about the only picture I have to go on .
This pic is not a great deal of help - even the colour is a mystery - I've taken an educated guess that they were Leaf Green !!

Cheers,

Roger

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by riley1.5

Thanks guys.
I have seen the pic in 'Works Wonders' - about the only picture I have to go on .
This pic is not a great deal of help - even the colour is a mystery - I've taken an educated guess that they were Leaf Green !!
Cheers,
Roger

OK we'll have to try harder have you tried asking questions on the 1.5 forum - can I post a link please mods?
http://makephpbb.com/phpbb/?mforum=rileymotorclub
If not then google will find it for you.

Also I think there are references in Bill Price's book about BMC Comps dept...

The Holy Grail would be a copy of FIA homologation sheet 1217 but it's listed as 'File Missing' unfortunately. Somebody somewhere must have a copy...

and I suppose another line of enquiry will be to trace previous owners who've raced them, there was one in Top Hat a few years ago for instance.

[VIVA GT]

Hello Roger, welcome to the forums.

Totally off topic but I was involved as a schoolboy in the early 70's with a pair of policemen who autocrossed a Riley 1.5 (well, to be strictly correct, it was a Wolseley 1500, but had the Riley twin SU's). The car was (hand) painted pale blue with three white stripes accross the front, middle and rear of the car (so to look like a small patrol car) and they imaginatively called themselves the Panda Autocross Team!
What I do remember is that the car would break halfshafts very easily, but replacements were easily obtained from scrapyards as not only were Wolseley 1500's & Riley 1.5's good donors, but the many guises of Morris 1000also used exactly the same axle. (The Morris 1000 van was also a good source for a lower final drive too!) All you had to do was remove the rear wheels and brake drums, take out one small Phillips headed screw, and the halfshaft was free!
(OK Nurse, time to bring my medication and slippers please...)

[riley1.5]

Thanks MGDavid

I am intrigued by 'The Holy Grail' - I am assuming this would be a full spec sheet for homologation purposes? Any ideas where I might find another copy (if the original has gone missing) or ...... has anybody got a copy?

have you tried asking questions on the 1.5 forum

... I am a regular on the 1.5 forum - and collectively we all are scratching around in the dark on this one! I am also the 1.5 Registrar - so my lack of knowledge is looking a bit embarrasing

trace previous owners who've raced them, there was one in Top Hat a few years ago for instance.

.... this was my brother and I - we will be back in 2011 (or 12 !!)



VIVA GT .... breaking half-shafts is a regular occurrance in a 1.5 - I always carry a spare pair! You can get toughened ones (I think Midget/Sprite racers use them) and we havent broken one in 6 seasons of racing!

Once again thanks guys for all your help so far


Roger.

[MGDavid]

hmmm the only other line of enquiry I can come up with would be to gather info on all the folk who raced / rallied them in period, and then find them or their families to see what notes / records / archives have been kept, as if you were researching for a book. I'd start with the MG Car club in Abingdon as they know who from Comps in the 50s and 60s is still around.

[terence]

Welcome Riley,have you looked at Bill Price's BMC Competitions Department. Could well be worth getting a copy,I have one but its with a friend at present. Good luck with the project.

[33JOY]

I have a nice clean copy. Will happily produce a pdf version for anyone that is interested.

Peter

[riley1.5]

Peter,

I would love a copy of the Holy Grail !

Could you please email me one rogerflatt@tiscali.co.uk

Cheers,

Roger

[33JOY]

Roger

I have emailed a set to you.

Peter

[SAMD]

Class, Class Class. These forum thingys are brilliant.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by 33JOY

I have a nice clean copy. Will happily produce a pdf version for anyone that is interested.

Peter

Hi
I try to keep copies of all cars which may race with HRSR but I don't have this set. A copy would be appreciated - peterwray65@btinternet.com - thanks.

[smokystove]

I ran down the exact same blind alley trying to find some photos/inspiration from the works Magnettes that ran the 1955 Monte, etc. for a Magnette ZA I'm having put together.... not much info out there.

If it's any help at all, some sources say that the '55 trio of Magnettes were maroon. The photos I've seen so far are also as with the Riley only in black/white. But their paint does look a lot darker than photos of the Rileys so Leaf Green might not be far off (the ZAs look black in the B/W photos).

Waiting on a copy of BMC Competition Department Secrets on back order from Amazon, when I get it and come across any Riley info I'd be happy to copy the page and email to you.

[John Turner]

It would be interesting to know how many of these works rally Riley 1.5s were built and how often they competed. I can only find two results for them in Marcus Chambers, '7 Year Twitch'. The first for the Circuit of Ireland in April 1958 when Pat Moss and Ann Riley won the Ladies Cup and came 3rd in the closed cars over 1300cc class, and February, 1959 where the same pair competed in the Sestriere Rally.

[MGDavid]

don't forget the 1959 Tulip Rally, Tish Ozanne and Anne Hall were runners-up for the Coupe des Dames.

[riley1.5]

Hi John & MGDavid,

As you can guess I am quite interested in the works One-Point-fives and their history! Unfortuately there is very little written about them - they seem to be the forgotten cousins of all the Healeys and Minis!
However he is what I know so far ......

There were initially 3 cars built at Abingdon - I think they were all Leaf Green (although the build records contradict other sources)
Registered ... OMO 600, OMO 601 & OMO 602 (Chassis no. - VAT13/549, VAC13/592 & VAC13/593 - although I dont know which chassis no goes with which reg no.!)

1958 Monte Carlo Rally
Bremner/Oldworth - retired - no.317 - OMO 602
Brookes/Brookes - crashed - no.304

1958 RAC Rally
Mitchell/Johns - crashed - no.169 - OMO 600
Lee/Sinclair - 10th - no.167

1958 Circuit of Ireland
3 cars lightly! prepared and shipped to Ireland - they were black and registered PBL 736,7 & 8 - which were then sold off in Ireland after the event. Denis Bell is currently researching these cars more thoroughly!
Moss/Wisdom - 20th & 1st Ladies - no.41 - PBL 737
Chambers/Mcwhir -
Biggar/Moore -

1958 Tulip Rally
Moss/Wisdom - 19th & 2nd ladies - no.129 - OMO 601
Gott/Johns - retired - no.101 - OMO 602
Brookes/Brookes - 82nd - no.131 - OMO 600
Brookes/Sutcliffe - 24th - no.128 - mystery which car this is - could there be a fourth works one?

1958 Silverstone - GP support Race.
Ian Walker - 8th - no.17 - OMO 600

1958 Brands Hatch
Two of the OMO cars were used in the 1958 Saloon Car Championship 'shoot-out' decider between Jack Sears and Tommy Sopwith.

1959 Sestriere Rally
Moss/Wisdom - 20th & 1st ladies - no.646 - OMO 602

1959 & 1960
Tish Ozanne used her own car which was prepared by Abingdon - but I am sure this was not a works entry.

1962 Monte Carlo Rally !!
Cotter/Collison - no.153 - MWL 441 - total mystery this one - but definately listed as a works entry!!


Well there you have it - 7 works cars - the three OMO cars, three black 'Irish' cars and MWL 441. Plus 1 further unknown, posible works car from the '58 Tulip.
Still loads of unanswered questions - so if anyone knows any more ???? ....

I am currently trying to rebuild my car to 1958 RAC/Tulip Rally spec. - however thanks to Peter providing the homologation papers (see earlier in this thread) I am a little closer to an authentic spec, rather than a guess!

Cheers for now,

Roger

[riley1.5]

1958 Riley Team car update !!

Thanks to a couple of leads from the forum I have found out more info - espcially from the Homologation Papers provided by 33JOY.

Here are a couple of pictures that have also come to light .... (courtesy of LAT photo)

1958 Tulip Rally - Moss/Wisdom - 19th


1958 RAC Rally - Lee/Sinclair - 10th overall


The replica is coming on well - and should be ready by the end of the year - hoping to get the spec as close as posible to the Moss car - OMO 601 - in the Tulip Rally (top photo).

Cheers,

Roger

[mountbatten]

Hi. I am new to the forum so please forgive me if I am going about things the wrong way.

My father, JOHN BREMNER, was the driver of OMO 602 in the Monte Carlo Rally. He had entered in 1953 in his father's RILEY RMA and entered as the Lloyd's of London Motor Club which he started with a number of chums. He also formed the SOIXANTE DOUZE HEURES DU MANS CLUB on the basis that 24 hours of drinking was not enough and members needed to be on a mission for 24 hours before the race and 24 hours afterwards, hence the 72 Club. His pals were Duncan Hamilton, Gregor Grant, John Bolster and a host of other characters. I still have the original photos and songsheets. I was taken every year as a bottle washer and look-out.

He then joined the BMC team with TONY OLDWORTH and TIM HEDLEY. I was at school at the time but was allowed to listen to the Monte Carlo reports on the wireless. I went with him to Abingdon when he picked up the Pathfinder that he did like but I do not think he liked the 1.5 too much.

It is clear that there is a lot of information available that I have never seen so if anyone can fill me in as to where I can learn more it would be most appreciated.

Many thanks.

Andrew Bremner

[chunterer]

Warm welcome Andrew!

Thankyou for this additional detail and info, look forward to your further participation in this and other sections of the forum.

[mountbatten]

Sorry to be a pest. My eyes are not good. What is the registration of the car in the RAC FIA papers please?

[33JOY]

828 JWL

[riley1.5]

828 JWL was the car use by the factory for the press launch of the Mk2 version of the One-Point-Five. It was also the road test car for 'The Motor' in 1961.

Hi Andrew - I'm fascinated to hear of your fathers' Riley exploits. Unfortunately I know nothing more than what I have written on this thread. Do you have any futher pictures and/or information? - especially about the One-Point-Five. I know the archivist for the Riley Motor Club would be very interested!!

Cheers,
Roger.

[Riley Blue]

Any further developments? I'm the Riley Motor Club's archivist Roger referred to and would very much like to learn more about the works 1.5s. Does anyone have any colour photos of the OMO cars or any B/W pics to add to the Club's archive.

Also, does anyone know where to find the film of the Sears/Sopwith shoot-out for the 1958 British Saloon Car Championship? Two of the works 1.5s were used and the film appeared on YouTube briefly a short while back but was removed for copyright violation. I'd like a copy but from a legitimate source.

Sorry I can't add to the excellent work already done by Roger but the Club has relatively little info about Riley's post war motorsport activities.