360 MRC 6hrs 2012 SNETTERTON - See revised thread.

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Wot, as in not chucking empty McDonalds cartons over the fence, no late night parties and kept the TV volume down.....

It was a pleasure to share a garage with you all.

BTW it was Mike keeping us all under control

[john ruston]

Why change the eligibility dates?

Let the race strengthen with the mix of cars it now has.

It covers all the major groups and series.

It needs the Aston and Alfas.

Bring date forward and you stop 60's cars competing

Just a thought!

[terence]

Totally agree John.

[Al Weyman]

What JR said!

[andy97]

Agreed, too.

[John Turner]

Absolutely; agree with JR and others. Focus on developing the classes we already have, and nothing more modern either because if we keep moving the goal posts and/or letting later stuff in we lose sight of why we pushed for such an event in the first place.

[MartinSmith]

Ok,

Thank you all for your ideas

We are not in a rush to change the classes or the idea of the sub classes, they worked this year, they were fair, it wasn't Rocket Science

It WILL move up by one year (it will go to 1990, we are all getting older, its by ONE year not five, not ten, it is "for cars at least 21 years old" and it ensures that although historic it still "moves" with the time.

Thanks
Claire

[john ruston]

I disagree!

Threre are enough cars to fill this race with the cars that are pre 90.

I would arguee that making it 1981and 30 years would give more entries.

Getting older has nothing to do with it.

Would assume the grid could be full of 911's.None to be seen

Spa seems to be full and reserves and that has had Pre 66 date forever,some 120 cars.

All the Best

Luv you really Claire!

[johngee]

Claire and I are in total agreement over this. We'll just bring the end date forward by just one year but no more.
Unless I'm misunderstanding JR (always an easy thing to do! ) there was never (nor is there any intention) to limit the older cars to a fixed starting date.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by john ruston

I disagree!

Threre are enough cars to fill this race with the cars that are pre 90.

I would arguee that making it 1981and 30 years would give more entries.

Getting older has nothing to do with it.

Would assume the grid could be full of 911's.None to be seen

Spa seems to be full and reserves and that has had Pre 66 date forever,some 120 cars.

All the Best

Luv you really Claire!

I Luv you tooo even though I STILL HAVENT MET YOU!!!!!

Spa is full because its spa!!!!!! its a beautiful circuit, we are not moving the pre date, in fact, there is NO pre dat (the "PreHistorics" class is anything pre 1959)

[andy97]

From another part of 10-Tenths:

Originally Posted by Porscheman

Just while we are on about eligible cars i have a couple of questions about some cars we have so we can have some time to think about what we are doing

If the year moves to 1990 then we have 2 E36 M3s that may be suitable but here is the question The E36 was introduced in late 1990 in 316/318/320/325 but the M3 was not released until 1992 so would this make it eligible and it was 1992/1993 before any coupes were available in any of the E36 variants and the Compact was available from 1995

Also would it be allowed to use later engines in these cars like the 1996/1997 engines

All details are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E36)

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Yes you can use newer engines, read the regs for exact details and please note the regs ARE subject to change!

C

I have noted that the regs are subject to change for the 2012 event & therefore that we are discussing the regs for the event just gone, but assuming that the regs are to be based largely on what has gone before these are the applicable engine regs (apologies to those that know them):

7.6.2. The Original standard production cylinder block may be used or an alternative manufactured by the same manufacturer to the original production specification i9ncluding but not limited to material, bore, number of main bearings & number of main bearing fasteners must be used & may be re-bored up to a max of plus 0.060"

7.6.3. The cylinder head(s) must be the standard production component or an alternative manufactured by the same manufacturer as the original production component to original specifiction including but not limited to material, number of valves, ports & plugs, same plug angle, valve angle/port configuration & operating type & fixes to the original standard production cylinder block without modification.

So, my interpretation of this is that you may have a 1987 car but you can put an engine in to it from a 1991 maufactured version of the SAME ENGINE TYPE but not one from a later, different type. ie it has to have the same engine as was originally available for that type of car in the pre 1990 model year. Lets say that your 1987 car has a 2 litre engine in it, you cannot put a 2.3 litre engine in it if that engine was not introduced until 1991.

To further labour the point & to give a real world example, last year I had a Fiat Uno (now in Norway), Unos were built with 1500cc SOHC engines (amongst others) so I could have run the car like that. However, my car had a 1600cc SOHC engine it it from a Fiat Tipo. Same type of engine but bigger capacity, no 1600cc Uno was ever produced, so the car was not eligible (except in the invitation class).

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by andy97

I have noted that the regs are subject to change for the 2012 event & therefore that we are discussing the regs for the event just gone, but assuming that the regs are to be based largely on what has gone before these are the applicable engine regs (apologies to those that know them):

7.6.2. The Original standard production cylinder block may be used or an alternative manufactured by the same manufacturer to the original production specification i9ncluding but not limited to material, bore, number of main bearings & number of main bearing fasteners must be used & may be re-bored up to a max of plus 0.060"

7.6.3. The cylinder head(s) must be the standard production component or an alternative manufactured by the same manufacturer as the original production component to original specifiction including but not limited to material, number of valves, ports & plugs, same plug angle, valve angle/port configuration & operating type & fixes to the original standard production cylinder block without modification.

So, my interpretation of this is that you may have a 1987 car but you can put an engine in to it from a 1991 maufactured version of the SAME ENGINE TYPE but not one from a later, different type. ie it has to have the same engine as was originally available for that type of car in the pre 1990 model year. Lets say that your 1987 car has a 2 litre engine in it, you cannot put a 2.3 litre engine in it if that engine was not introduced until 1991.

To further labour the point & to give a real world example, last year I had a Fiat Uno (now in Norway), Unos were built with 1500cc SOHC engines (amongst others) so I could have run the car like that. However, my car had a 1600cc SOHC engine it it from a Fiat Tipo. Same type of engine but bigger capacity, no 1600cc Uno was ever produced, so the car was not eligible (except in the invitation class).

Correct

The invitation class is there for "spirit of event" and, for the fact that, at the moment, we have not got a reserve list!!!! lol (at least Im honest)

so, as per Andy's above posting, the M3 E36 would not be allowed, nor would a 316i be allowed if it had an M3 engine in it....BUT a 316i with a 1997 316 engine in it WOULD be allowed.

Simples (I think)

ta
C

[Porscheman]

Thanks very much for clearing all that up people as it now seems much clearer to me

We sold our little 924 so we will be on the look out for a car or 2 for next year and we will probably get another 924 and a 944 maybe if buget permits or possibly a 325 E30 as they can be picked up cheap enough

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

the "PreHistorics" class is anything pre 1959

If that is drivers you need an 'Ancient- BC' as well

[grantp]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Wayyy too sporty. It has to be Fiat Multipla all round.

Now that idea is, er, very interesting ...

Maybe modified with controls that slide across the dash area as a unit?

Actually with so much potential for 'drive by wire' these days that may not be as silly as it sounds. (The sliding control I mean - the Multipla is of course an absurd suggestion .... )

[Tim Falce]

Off topic comment alert I have to type this or my brain will explode! We now seem to be discussing regs for next year in three or four different threads, could we keep talk of regs to one thread only so it'll be a bit easier to follow. I'd suggest this one is for talking about this year's race and not what may happen in the future Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Too true and indeed the regs should be discussed in the closed forum of 360MRC (that is no disrespect to others at all its just that they are not needed to be discussed here)

ta
C

[john ruston]

No, discussed on the thread covering next years event.

The 360 gang can note the comments or disregard them.

That's the name of the game on here!

This thread is all about this years extravaganza and should be drawing to a close.

[John Turner]

Ah, JR, the voice of reason; I agree; the last few posts now moved into the 2012 event thread.

[BILTEL]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitstop

Main reason Dave & myself went for the 924 is that it would be eligble for the Eifelrennen & the 6 hours, oh and for the famous Porsche reliability

If I hadn't already got the bimmer laying around I was looking to get a 924. Love um Love um Love um.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitstop

Main reason Dave & myself went for the 924 is that it would be eligble for the Eifelrennen & the 6 hours, oh and for the famous Porsche reliability

Unfortunately still a racing car so reliabilty not a given! 'Race Proven' is a good motto- I will be more confident of Tango lasting 6 hours after 2 or 3 more races.

Spa in June would be nice- but so is Snetterton Autosport 3hr same w/end. (Not in 924, obviously!) Nurburgring September meeting is same w/end as Spa 6hrs, so another clash! Any race at the latter 924 will fit into?

[andy97]

There's always the 40 min "Future Classics" races, Mike. I know its not endurance racing but 2 drivers can still share & Class G of FC was designed specifically for the < 2 litre, pre 1981 cars such as the 924.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

........ Nurburgring September meeting is same w/end as Spa 6hrs, so another clash! Any race at the latter 924 will fit into?

you could ask Barry S-S if he's dropping the 'British' requirement for his 1-hour.

[Tim Falce]

You could try the Belgian cup races at the Summer Classic.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

You could try the Belgian cup races at the Summer Classic.

If that is June, clashes with Snett Tim. Yes Andy, could well be FC at some point. 40 minutes- that's a sprint after 360!

If Barry is short of entries sure we sort something for Spa. Could always stick some MG badges on it