Formula racing in risk due to F1 selfishness???

[Mekola]

I remember the years when I joined the F1 fanbase. It was plenty of cars, when all races assured a full 26-cars grid (as assured by the original 1981 Concorde Agreement). Also saw a F2 and national F3 series with booming entries, and I remember the case of 1989 when both F1 and F3000 largely exceeded that quantity of cars, having about 35-40 cars each and about 20 teams in each series.

Since mid-1990s, the costs starts rising that in form that the sport started to became extremely expensive and impossible to affront to lower F1 teams. Things worsened when F3000 became one-make in 1996 and started to collapse all efforts of private chassis makers, that one by one started to decline and collapse (March, Reynard, Ralt, Swift, Lola, where are they now? ). In the first years F3000 was full of cars like the late 1980s, peaking 42 at the start of the 1999 edition, but since 2001 they started to starve and reaching a low of 14-grid cars in the last races of 2003 season. GP2 replaced and rebranded F3000, but despite keeping the 26-car grid, it starts to show cost-cutting measures, despite one-make series promised a controlled cost measures and not inflation of budgets.

In 2009, when manufacturers were carrying out of F1, Max Mosley proposed a budget cap and entered the three little teams with the purpose to have more cars in the grid. Now these three little teams collapsed, and we face a F1 grid of 18 cars. Things are worsened where Force India, Lotus and Sauber are facing problems, making F1 something tiny. Big teams have it all, and only the Big Four (as the Agatha Christie's novel).

In fact, my deepest regret is that most of F1 earnings and rewards are taking all by less and less hands, and the entire formula racing system is becoming troubled because the selfishness of F1 motivated the difficulties of lower formula racing and strangery of the customs of other times.

I'm tired by lousy F1 grids, money is and tech it is; it SHOULD be a most cost-effective and capable F1 grid. Perhaps rules should be not that restrictive about tech and sport. Perhaps it has no more sense that a team must build its car and not allowing customer cars. Perhaps it has no more sense that only 2-car teams are allowed. Perhaps it has no more sense F1 has to be THAT expensive.

I beg pardon if I'm not more precise, but I thing in formula racing as an entity something is running VERY bad. I'm tired of greedy dictators and piranhas in this kind of sport. Judging of his behaviour since 1978 of today, Bernie Ecclestone has betrayed the teams he defended in the FISA-FOCA war.

I want something different, and specificly, more accesible to all people. If F1 wants exclusivity by all means, it will ruin the grounds it makes the cash flow to its banks. Again, sorry by my speech, because my mand doesn't leave me to be more precisely with I want to transmite with my message.

But hope many of you have the same sense as me. How old times were cheaper, more accesible and avaliable to more people to race in formula racing, and we were happier with that world.

At the end: Is carbon fibre THAT expensive to justify the cost of a chassis??? In my country, Argentina, is still not possible to built one formula car with that material, considering the facilities we have.

[S griffin]

I agree. Amen to that

[ECW Dan Selby]

I hope they enjoy their money when F1 crashes, burns, and implodes due to their own short-shortsightedness.

It's becoming increasingly hard to like this 'brand'.

Selby

[FormulaFox]

The annoying thing about F1 to me is that with the amount of money being thrown around in it, it would be BETTER if it were less restricted; More room to work with would likely mean more consistent domination by a single team during the season, but more opportunities for creative minds to break the mold would mean the grid would get shaken up more often between seasons, which would allow for a more than sufficient level of excitement.

Sadly, the damage has been done and I think it's too late for opening the rules up to have any hope of improving anything. It's not even the restrictiveness of the formula itself that's done the damage - that's just one of several things. But I can't help but think that, despite my opinions on how large an effect the economy has had on matters, F1 would be in a far better position if 10 or so years ago they'd gone the route of being an open-wheel version of LMP1.

[BudLightJaguar]

Were the costs as much of a problem in the 90's or early 00's when tobacco money was still part of the deal?

[cerdic]

It is definitely time for a rethink.

The big argument for restrictive regulations has always been that it controls costs. Well, that went well didn't it? Maybe it is time to go the other way and free up the regulations? I first started watching F1 in the 1970s. Part of the excitement was seeing the teams trying out all sorts of weird and wacky ideas to get ahead. Yes, sometimes a team would come up with something that made them unbeatable for a while, but others would always catch up.

I am not looking forward to a grid of 18 cars. I don't see what is wrong with slow backmarkers. They provide colour and an opportunity for new drivers and engineers to get a foot in the door. Occasionally they can spring a surprise. Sometimes they just provide some much needed levity. Andrea Moda, anyone!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

And the next generation of minds to change F1 and maybe revamp it are being turned away and rejected by the corrupt rulers of this series so that the power remains with withering and dwindling minds and bodies who still head Formula 1 after several years, decades even, of disgruntled fans and teams who try to voice their concerns on deaf ears. Maybe their hearing goes with age? They like the current system, it makes them richer. They don't look to the future because they won't be around to see it. F1 is caught in a vicious circle of decline and the FIA and Bernie seem happy to let it happen as long as they remain powerful.

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

Were the costs as much of a problem in the 90's or early 00's when tobacco money was still part of the deal?

I think when the tobacco money dried up is when F1 started to have problems. The tobacco companies poured a lot more money in than other companies will because they were so limited where they could advertise.

So the money left but the teams kept on spending like they always have done.

[GT6]

yes money spent by the big teams have created a massive problem that the heads of F! have been trying to temper but remember that the two teams that currently dominate F! have grown from small teams in the recent past whilst the big teams Williams, mclaren, Renault and Ferrari have not had it so good

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Grown from small teams, but grown by having millions of millions of pounds thrown at them.

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Grown from small teams, but grown by having millions of millions of pounds thrown at them.

Yes but it does prove that it can be done

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I hope they enjoy their money when F1 crashes, burns, and implodes due to their own short-shortsightedness.

It's becoming increasingly hard to like this 'brand'.

Selby

Could not agree more, took the words right out of my mouth.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by GT6

Yes but it does prove that it can be done

But only can be done in a way unsustainable in the long run.

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

But only can be done in a way unsustainable in the long run.

Why unsustainable? The takeover of Braun and the money put in by Mercedes and Red Bull is the reason the teams are successful there are companies out there that will do it but is that what we want? surely innovation and pushing the technical boundries is what motor racing should be about

[Casper]

I think none of us here know what we are talking about and all the clever people who run F1 must be right. After all they are the management and they must know more than us....

I find it strange that even some commentators who are deeply involved in the sport and have been around for years do not get it. I notice the call for cost caps seems to have bitten the dust but those in the media who championed it seem not to have any clever ideas on what should happen in its place.

[cerdic]

GT6... Yes, you are right. It can be done by a big enough company with enough money and commitment.

The problem is that on current evidence there only seem to be two companies that want to do it. And they are Mercedes and Red Bull. We need several others to ensure a full grid. But I don't see any other multinationals falling over each other in their haste to grab the opportunity to enter F1 provided by the demise of Caterham and Marussia!

[JacobP]

The solution to F1 problems should be in massive cost cutting. The cost of the engines is just a tip of iceberg, or a straw that broke a camel's backbone. For some reason, everyone who is doing business with F1 thinks that the teams can print their own money. As a result, a team needs a budget of 100 million USD just to build a passable and legal chassis and employ a pay driver or two.

My personal view is that the first step to control the costs should be to allow teams to buy or sell a customer chassis. The current situation is different from the 60s and 70s where a team could build a chassis in a proverbial "garage". F1 has gone high tech, and there is no way of changing it. I'd rather see teams like Sauber or Toro Roso racing successfully in mid-pack with a customer chassis than see them perpetually in the back using a mediocre in-house chassis. Yes, this means that the number of chassis builders will go down to 4-5 probably.

The profit sharing should be skewed towards the teams. Bernie should give up more money to the teams, and certain rich teams should not be receiving a bonus at the end of year only for being a "well established team". And the back-marking teams should be getting more of prize money.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by GT6

Why unsustainable? The takeover of Braun and the money put in by Mercedes and Red Bull is the reason the teams are successful there are companies out there that will do it but is that what we want? surely innovation and pushing the technical boundries is what motor racing should be about

Interesting that you do not mention driver skill!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by wnut

Interesting that you do not mention driver skill!

The best drivers will command the highest fees, and the wealthiest teams will be more willing to comply. Why else would Lewis leave McLaren? Seb's gone to Ferrari after a dismal RBR season, but I'm guessing he still has a very complimentary contract.

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

The best drivers will command the highest fees, and the wealthiest teams will be more willing to comply. Why else would Lewis leave McLaren? Seb's gone to Ferrari after a dismal RBR season, but I'm guessing he still has a very complimentary contract.

But RBR's season was not that bad especially compared to Ferrari who had to say the least a much worse one

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by JacobP

My personal view is that the first step to control the costs should be to allow teams to buy or sell a customer chassis.

i fear that will amount to little more then a redistribution of wealth and a greater level of subservience from small teams to large (supplier) teams.

problem is we all want different things from f1 so for me i dont think its possible to see spec cars as anything other than a cash grab by the big players.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i fear that will amount to little more then a redistribution of wealth and a greater level of subservience from small teams to large (supplier) teams.

problem is we all want different things from f1 so for me i dont think its possible to see spec cars as anything other than a cash grab by the big players.

I can only agree, every time there are spec cars the prices are ridiculous!

Are but you have to pay for the R&D

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

I can only agree, every time there are spec cars the prices are ridiculous!

Are but you have to pay for the R&D

and thats the point. R&D is not a cost its an opportunity.

if you build your own chassis and you own the IP rights that go with it then the money you spend on R&D actually has a purpose beyond the limited scope of F1.

its what allowed the engineering divisions of Mclaren and Williams to pivot into becoming technology companies.

to put it another way, its similar to the argument of leasing a car vs financing a car. the former may be cheaper but at the end of the day you dont own anything and long term you are actually poorer when it comes time to get your next vehicle.

F1 teams, particularly the non manufacturing teams, need to be more then just racing entities. they need to diversify and they need to grow in order to supplement their income which in turn allows them to go racing.

and given the lack of available sponsorship and the new global economy it makes sense that teams develop revenue streams outside of FOM's control.

[GT6]

That may be true for already established F1 teams but it can never work for fresh teams, To achieve anything they must spend huge amounts of money and only after doing that will they be able to diversify into other area's and attract the money making contracts. Unfortunately that means the attraction for new teams coming to F1 is small and therefore those there should be helped where ever possible

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Mekola

Perhaps it has no more sense that a team must build its car and not allowing customer cars.

It doesn't make sense.

When F1 grids get to 14 cars, they will realise that they made bad decisions. And it will be too late.

And cars since 2009 are really ugly. And there's no proper overtakes, thanks to DRS.