Force India, financial & ownership legal problems

[Paradise City]

Joe Saward writes a good blog; I haven't noted a peculiar amount of errors in his reportage. He informs us about his links with Caterham and that's where one's intelligence comes in assessing his output. As long as he declares his interests, he can work away.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Joe Saward writes a good blog; I haven't noted a peculiar amount of errors in his reportage. He informs us about his links with Caterham and that's where one's intelligence comes in assessing his output. As long as he declares his interests, he can work away.

/\/\ I agree with all of that (and wonder if the claims of JS's bias against FI are made by people with a bias against JS?).

[EastonNeston]

What can not be denied is that,nregardless of the messenger, that having the legal and financial difficulties that Mallaya & Roy have is conducive to the long term survival & viability of their businesses.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

What can not be denied is that,nregardless of the messenger, that having the legal and financial difficulties that Mallaya & Roy have is conducive to the long term survival & viability of their businesses.

Yes of course. There's no smoke without fire.

[Paradise City]

Well, the head of Sahara Investments is currently serving a 6 month term in prison! That Force India stakeholders are in acute amounts of trouble, is not an invention of Joe Saward. If anything Saward has been understating these problems.


http://firstbiz.firstpost.com/corpor...wer-97728.html

[Flavio Galtieri]

So after a two year long campaign to undermine confidence in Force India it's actually Saward's favourite team Caterham who finally has the bailiffs at the door first.

For someone who seems to believe he has more credibility as a journalist than any of his peers, let alone knows more than the rest of us, that must be a bitter pill to swallow.

I hope they sort it out for the sake of everyone involved.

The employees deserve far, far better.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

So after a two year long campaign to undermine confidence in Force India it's actually Saward's favourite team Caterham who finally has the bailiffs at the door first.

Saward has been downplaying FI's problems actually. You've constructed this personal universe for yourself that rotates exclusively around the imaginary evils of Joe Saward. It's truly bizarre.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Saward has been downplaying FI's problems actually. You've constructed this personal universe for yourself that rotates exclusively around the imaginary evils of Joe Saward. It's truly bizarre.

Ha Ha! That's good response and I appreciate it.

I just think it's funny that his hatred for one man has blinded him to what's been going on right next to him. But nevermind, as you say the problems are far more deep rooted than one team let alone one the opinions of one Internet hack.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Ha Ha! That's good response and I appreciate it.

I just think it's funny that his hatred for one man has blinded him to what's been going on right next to him. But nevermind, as you say the problems are far more deep rooted than one team let alone one the opinions of one Internet hack.

I've not detected any unjustified 'hatred' of FI but only the criticism of various high profile legal and commercial disasters in which the executives have embroiled themselves One of the owners has been serving time in prison! It's not unreasonable to assume this might have a knock on effect on the governance of FI as well as to put into question the judgement of the owners there.

Virtually noone predicted the sheer rapidity of the decline of Caterham.

Saward has a short fuse with anyone that challenges him on his blog and seems to think if he pleads enough the online jungle will become some polite parlour conversation between gentlemen. But his journalism in respect to Force India has been measured indeed, he has even downplayed the issues there. This is obvious to anyone with a clear head and has done even some simple research.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

But his journalism in respect to Force India has been measured indeed, he has even downplayed the issues there. This is obvious to anyone with a clear head and has done even some simple research.

Well we can agree to differ perhaps?

I can claim to have done my research, probably greater than most although I can't promise with a clear head at all times...

We'll see how it pans out. I think Saward's hatred for VJ has upset his judgment when it comes to reporting, which is probably why he's a freelance reporting on a sport and not a staffer on the F.T.

Let's face it, most teams will change hands eventually. Whether through financial imprudence of the owners or an other investor coming in. It's the hand wringing satisfaction with which he posts every little detail and rumour of a situation he doesn't fully understand that got me. It's quite sad.

No doubt when that day comes he'll triumphantly say "Told you so", whilst forgetting what he missed telling us about his employers.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

We'll see how it pans out. I think Saward's hatred for VJ has upset his judgment when it comes to reporting, which is probably why he's a freelance reporting on a sport and not a staffer on the F.T.

i vaguely agree with you on this, but it's absolutely true of everyone. we call it micromanaging in my company - one or two people here are prone to getting lost in microscopic detail and are obsessed with chasing single items when they should be looking at the bigger picture. creates a huge blind spot.

i think we all wish it didn't happen with journalists, but it does, and as long as you read their stuff in that context and look out for the signs that what you're reading is being clouded by micromanaging it's harmless. this is where reading multiple solid news sources is a winner.

ps if i was in his shoes i'd freelance too.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Well we can agree to differ perhaps?

I can claim to have done my research, probably greater than most although I can't promise with a clear head at all times...

We'll see how it pans out. I think Saward's hatred for VJ has upset his judgment when it comes to reporting, which is probably why he's a freelance reporting on a sport and not a staffer on the F.T.

Let's face it, most teams will change hands eventually. Whether through financial imprudence of the owners or an other investor coming in. It's the hand wringing satisfaction with which he posts every little detail and rumour of a situation he doesn't fully understand that got me. It's quite sad.

No doubt when that day comes he'll triumphantly say "Told you so", whilst forgetting what he missed telling us about his employers.

If you're embroiled in several court cases at national and regional level and your co-owner is serving a stint in the nick - these aren't minor anomalies or insignificant details - unpalatable questions need to be raised. All Saward has done is ask some of those questions. It's literally staggering you can't see that. I place stress on it because it's important that journalists raise these questions. In fact there's plenty of documented dirty laundry that he hasn't raised - and if we are to criticise Saward for anything - it's that he's been too easy on Force India.

I think what's got people hysterical and arm waving is this Caterham appointment. I don't know where that position stands now with Caterham being off loaded by Fernandes. But Saward is a freelancer, travelling the globe following these races is cash intensive, picking up small directorships, appointments here or there is par for the course. As long as he informs his readers of that on his blog - which he has done a few times - he's good to go.

[chillibowl]

Joe Saward presents his opinions via his blog so surely the guy is allowed to have his own opinions on his own blog.

to his credit he ever hides from that fact either and from what i gather, on the websites and other actual journalistic mediums he writes for, to me it seems like he operates as a balanced and objective journalist.

that said how involved is Subrata Roy in the running of FI and how much technical assistance does the team even receive from Sahara India?

is his incarceration really that relevant to Force India or F1 in general?

[bella]

it's very relevant. if you're dumb enough to get caught then you're not shrewd enough to be involved in a f1 team

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bella

it's very relevant. if you're dumb enough to get caught then you're not shrewd enough to be involved in a f1 team

well getting caught is one thing...being found guilty is another.

[Mike Harte]

Christian Sylt's latest report (as repeated on Pitpass: http://www.pitpass.com/52932/Funding...e-says-auditor ), puts the spotlight on Force India's finances, and it's potential ability to continue as a going concern.

This information has been garnered from the latest audited accounts, which the auditors have had to "qualify" because of their (the auditor's) fears for the financial well-being of Force India.

[chillibowl]

not to change the subject but is it just me or is Mallya's haircut is truly ridiculous? surely his money could be better spent

[Teretonga]

Google Mallya and you will find most of the reports of his legal problems are related to the failed airline circa 2011-2012-2013. Roy Sahara is in prison for nothing related to Force India and only became involved as a result of a debt Mallya had with him;

Combine the current Sylt article arriving with amazing coincidence in the same week that Mallya is involved in an expose on F1 finances and a threat to Bernie's F1 circus (the team strike/withdrawal, which was never going to happen) financial dealings with the 'super teams', the Horner outburst over 'crowd funding' and you have a picture of the 'puppet master' pulling the strings on his Punch and Judy show'.

'If you don't jump to my barking I'll punch you,,,,,,, There. See how powerful I can be!'

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Google Mallya and you will find most of the reports of his legal problems are related to the failed airline circa 2011-2012-2013. Roy Sahara is in prison for nothing related to Force India and only became involved as a result of a debt Mallya had with him;

Combine the current Sylt article arriving with amazing coincidence in the same week that Mallya is involved in an expose on F1 finances and a threat to Bernie's F1 circus (the team strike/withdrawal, which was never going to happen) financial dealings with the 'super teams', the Horner outburst over 'crowd funding' and you have a picture of the 'puppet master' pulling the strings on his Punch and Judy show'.

'If you don't jump to my barking I'll punch you,,,,,,, There. See how powerful I can be!'

I like your analysis and I suspect you are on the money too.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Google Mallya and you will find most of the reports of his legal problems are related to the failed airline circa 2011-2012-2013. Roy Sahara is in prison for nothing related to Force India and only became involved as a result of a debt Mallya had with him;

Combine the current Sylt article arriving with amazing coincidence in the same week that Mallya is involved in an expose on F1 finances and a threat to Bernie's F1 circus (the team strike/withdrawal, which was never going to happen) financial dealings with the 'super teams', the Horner outburst over 'crowd funding' and you have a picture of the 'puppet master' pulling the strings on his Punch and Judy show'.

'If you don't jump to my barking I'll punch you,,,,,,, There. See how powerful I can be!'

You can't just separate the serious problems the owners are embroiled in from the fortunes of the companies in which they own and manage. Real life doesn't work like that.

That one of the Force India owners is a jailbird has no implications on Force India is not a credible position to hold. Nor is attacking journalists for doing their job.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

You can't just separate the serious problems the owners are embroiled in from the fortunes of the companies in which they own and manage. Real life doesn't work like that.

That one of the Force India owners is a jailbird has no implications on Force India is not a credible position to hold. Nor is attacking journalists for doing their job.

Who's attacking journalists?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Who's attacking journalists?

You. Your inference that Sylt is involved in planting stories to sabotage Mallya as retribution for the boycott threat.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

You. Your inference that Sylt is involved in planting stories to sabotage Mallya as retribution for the boycott threat.

I think it was where the journalist heard the story was what was being infered.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

You. Your inference that Sylt is involved in planting stories to sabotage Mallya as retribution for the boycott threat.

I am not attacking Christian Sylt at all.
Any implication of my comment is that someone associated with the commercial rights of the sport may be manipulating contacts within the media to bring attention in peoples attention or create pressure for members of the F1 community in order to pressure them.

Christian wrote an article that was then used by Pitpass to focus attention on Force India. Pitpass identified Christian as their source. Alan Tovey has written an article on the same subject for the Telegraph and Christian wrote an article published by the Telegraph in March 2013 on Force India's finances. F1 finance is his specialist field.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...up-losses.html

It is widely noted that Christian has associations with Bernie and Bernie has disseminated information through Christian's journalism on earlier occasions but there is no criticism of Christian Sylt in my post.

Any implications of wrong doing on Christian's part are entirely yours.

[TzeiTzei]

Well one should remember that Sylt is Bernie's lap dog.