[Team] US F1

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think what people have to remember is that Prodrive were indeed awarded a grid slot for 2008, they then had their plans scuppered by indecision over the direction of chassis rules. I believe their original plan was to use a customer chassis for the first 1-2 years before switching over to constructing their own in the 3rd year.

However, back to my original point. Prodrive were awarded a slot on the grid, so therefore the FIA must have deemed them a "fit and worthy" candidate for F1, so when they re-applied in 2009 and they were turned down, that effectively meant that USF1, Campos and Manor were all better options than a team that had already been granted an entry 2 years earlier...

You are forgetting the main, overriding reason why both Prodrive and N. Technology didn't receive bids: they weren't going to run Cosworth lumps. That being the case, this statement simply isn't true. There was nothing 'better' about any of the entries that did get in, it was an application process wrapped up in political considerations. That's why N. Technology sued.

In reference to your most recent post, there is a major, major difference in completely changing how you can acquire a chassis in an era of unlimited spending, and changing "goalposts" for spending. It's always been clear to the current newbies how they must get their cars on the grid - not so for Prodrive in 2008.

[jab]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Again, the new 2010 teams had their "goalposts" moved also by the FIA when the budget cap was scrapped. So in both instances, the 2008 entry and the 2010 had the rules for entry blurred by the governing body and FOTA.

Indeed, Campos have said that it cost them some backers. May have been a reason why Adrian had to sell up

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by jab

Of course Lola were a better prospect than US F1, that was easily apparent from the outset. I just think it was more than being the best team - they couldn't just include 3 new British teams because the teams from other countries would accuse Mosley of being biased towards the Brits

If the FIA evaluation process was to have a bias towards anything other than the best - which has clearly been the case based on what's unfolded - then that's even more derranged. Maybe we should be casting our vitriol towards the FIA evaluators and not towards the USF1s of the world. Ultimately, that's where things have gone wrong.

[jab]

Well, the problem is F1 has long been dominated by British garagistes. Even after the manufacturers bought out many of these teams, they've kept the British bases, like Renault and Honda/Mercedes. So I think the FIA may have felt it necessary to spread it around like that. Plus there's potentially more money to be tapped (or was thought) by spreading it around the globe - if they'd picked 3 British teams, they'd have all been competing for the same sponsors

I think there were 2 main reasons why US F1 were chosen:

1) Because they'd been talking for a while and launched their plans before everyone else

2) Because they were American and all the reasoning behind wanting an American team

I think it is perhaps wrong to judge in hindsight, but at the same time doing a bit of investigation into Anderson and Windsor's backgrounds would've given a dodgy picture. Stefan Johansson, who worked with Anderson at Ligier and Onyx, said not to listen to him because he was a dreamer, according to AMuS. You'd think someone like that would know better than a few FIA suits

But that's the way it is. We can't change the past now. Only prepare for the future. Let's just hope we get a stronger 13th team next year that actually gets a car built. Preferably Lola

[Sodemo]

I think its been said further back in the thread, but I wouldn't object at all if someone like Panoz or DAMS (both non-British teams / constructors) got the gig, of course, they would have to apply first! NTech was a non-British team, and that got the elbow too.

[jab]

To be fair, N-Tech can't say much as it had been reported that the team had gone under after they lost the Honda WTCC gig, so I can only imagine it was the owners trying to resurrect the team with not actually that much substance. We never heard full plans from them

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by jab

I think it is perhaps wrong to judge in hindsight, but at the same time doing a bit of investigation into Anderson and Windsor's backgrounds would've given a dodgy picture. Stefan Johansson, who worked with Anderson at Ligier and Onyx, said not to listen to him because he was a dreamer, according to AMuS. You'd think someone like that would know better than a few FIA suits

Stefan said something akin to that pretty much when the project was announced, so I never got my hopes up. Windsor seems like a dreamer and full of hot air, which would have been fine if there'd been a sensible person running the factory. And with Ken, that wasn't the case.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by jab

To be fair, N-Tech can't say much as it had been reported that the team had gone under after they lost the Honda WTCC gig, so I can only imagine it was the owners trying to resurrect the team with not actually that much substance. We never heard full plans from them

N.Technology still exists, and will run in Superstars with a Porsche Panamera. They also designed the Formula Master cars, so they have experience designing single seaters as well. They, like Epsilon Euskadi, are fantastic teams that only needs money. When you pick an entrant, you either pick someone with the cash, or someone who can do a good job (EE, N.Tech, Lola et cetera) - preferably both, but picking someone with neither is just silly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

N.Technology still exists, and will run in Superstars with a Porsche Panamera. They also designed the Formula Master cars, so they have experience designing single seaters as well.

I thought Tatuus designed the Formula Masters car?

[tblincoe]

All of the previous debate regarding giving USF1 the 2011 entry appears to be academic - the remaining workforce at USF1 told today that the project is officially shutting down. ( http://twitter.com/dank_ross ) Apparently, story to come on Autosport soon.

Now the debate will fully and truly shift to granting Stefan the USF1 entry. Move to new thread?

[jab]

Latest rumours suggest Anderson left before the announcement

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by davyboy

If the FIA evaluation process was to have a bias towards anything other than the best - which has clearly been the case based on what's unfolded - then that's even more derranged. Maybe we should be casting our vitriol towards the FIA evaluators and not towards the USF1s of the world. Ultimately, that's where things have gone wrong.

Bingo.

I liken it to the situation which those who follow American football and the NFL will understand. The Washington Redskins hired Jim Zorn to be an offensive coordinator, which was a stretch based on his past experience. When they couldn't find a head coach, they put Zorn in the position and he failed miserably. The fault wasn't Zorn's, it was the fault of the process which put him in the position he wasn't supposed to be in.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Bingo.

I liken it to the situation which those who follow American football and the NFL will understand. The Washington Redskins hired Jim Zorn to be an offensive coordinator, which was a stretch based on his past experience. When they couldn't find a head coach, they put Zorn in the position and he failed miserably. The fault wasn't Zorn's, it was the fault of the process which put him in the position he wasn't supposed to be in.

Up to a point I agree but I don't see how this argument can absolve USF1 of responsibility. The analogy is not complete since the principles of USF1 were entirely free to choose to form a team and enter or not, they chose to go ahead were granted an entry and failed. I suspect that Zorn had little choice.

The FIA have their share of the responsibility but USF1 also have theirs, if they were not able to deliver they should not have entered.

[jab]

Dead

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Up to a point I agree but I don't see how this argument can absolve USF1 of responsibility. The analogy is not complete since the principles of USF1 were entirely free to choose to form a team and enter or not, they chose to go ahead were granted an entry and failed. I suspect that Zorn had little choice.

The FIA have their share of the responsibility but USF1 also have theirs, if they were not able to deliver they should not have entered.

Completely agree with you on all points - I just don't want to overlook the FIA's part in the grand scheme.

[steve nielsen]

and it's over:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81819

they should have quit earlier, that would have given Stefan GP time to prepare.

[Canada ALMS fan]

They should really now allow Stefan on the grid. If the FIA are not comfortable with this, make him put up an entry bond and put the team on a probationary entry for the first 3 races.

[JohnSSC]

...and so much for the "skunkworks" approach to F1. The only thing left is the smell...

I feel bad for the employees who gave up jobs or moved to be part of this debacle. We only miss a car on the grid. They are going to miss the ability to earn a paycheck.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

and it's over:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81819

they should have quit earlier, that would have given Stefan GP time to prepare.

They have been preparing. The fact remains, one vote can still keep them out. Williams and/or Ferrari will both have a problem with it.

[Juarez Jed]

Anderson and Windsor not present when the staff were put on unpaid leave..........what a low dog way to shut your team down.
These 2 should disappear from public view forever.

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

They should really now allow Stefan on the grid. If the FIA are not comfortable with this, make him put up an entry bond and put the team on a probationary entry for the first 3 races.

The only way I would by okay with allowing Stefan in at this point is on a contingent basis for the 2010 season ONLY before they were subject to an open application process to compete for retention of the entry in 2011.

I think such a situation would appease those who want Stefan on the grid, while also scratching the back of those who believe you shouldn't reward opportunists over those who are better situated for the future.

All of that said, Stefan look pretty brilliant at the moment huh?

[Canada ALMS fan]

^ Sounds sensible. I believe Bernie is opportunist here. IMO, when he realized USF1 and Campos were in trouble quite some time ago, and seeing Toyota desperate to recoup some of their investment, he probably pushed Stefanovic to push ahead and then publicly endorsed the effort to give it credibility and get the team through onto the grid.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

The only way I would by okay with allowing Stefan in at this point is on a contingent basis for the 2010 season ONLY before they were subject to an open application process to compete for retention of the entry in 2011.

I think such a situation would appease those who want Stefan on the grid, while also scratching the back of those who believe you shouldn't reward opportunists over those who are better situated for the future.

All of that said, Stefan look pretty brilliant at the moment huh?

I'm totally on the same page to allow Stefan an entry for 2011 without going through a proper application process just because they've got a couple of second hand cars now that they can run in 2010 would be a sick joke and make a mockery of the process. if they had bought the Toyota team as a going concern complete with it's entry it would be different.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

The only way I would by okay with allowing Stefan in at this point is on a contingent basis for the 2010 season ONLY before they were subject to an open application process to compete for retention of the entry in 2011.

I think such a situation would appease those who want Stefan on the grid, while also scratching the back of those who believe you shouldn't reward opportunists over those who are better situated for the future.

All of that said, Stefan look pretty brilliant at the moment huh?

That would need an amendment to the Concorde Agreement. If anything I think Stefan GP should not be allowed in, F1 should have a year to digest the new teams and another entry process should be opened for the thirteen team.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Call me greedy, but if there's a chance of 2 more mid pack cars I'll take 'em anytime, presuming they can run the full season. The car will easily be 3 to 4 seconds a lap faster than the Lotus or the Virgin cars.