Audi LMP1 Discussion

[chernaudi]

I'm surprised that Audi went with a hydraulic system, because of one, weight, and two, the issues that Peugeot initially had with the 908 and it's hydraulics.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I'm surprised that Audi went with a hydraulic system, because of one, weight, and two, the issues that Peugeot initially had with the 908 and it's hydraulics.

Evidently, weight savings were the main factor that led Audi to opt for this solution, so weight must not be an issue.

[chernaudi]

Not sure if fact or satire, but I'm taking this with a grain of salt considering today's date and the fact it says that Audi might enter F1 in 3018 and that DSC tried to get in touch with Audi Sport PR at 3:00 in the morning UK time:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...-campaign.html

On a more serious note (probably): SC365 interviewed Marcel Fassler about the R18 and his GT racing this year:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...rning-process/

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Not sure if fact or satire, but I'm taking this with a grain of salt considering today's date and the fact it says that Audi might enter F1 in 3018 and that DSC tried to get in touch with Audi Sport PR at 3:00 in the morning UK time:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...-campaign.html

Obviously it's a joke. The IMSA one was better. This one tries way too hard of being clever and F1-political

[chernaudi]

Audi might enter F1--in 3018 at this rate given their supposed dislike of FOM and the current technical rules. Maybe they're hoping that there won't be a clone of Bernie Eccostone running around a thousand years from now. Maybe that's what DSC supposes...

On a more serious note, since I already named the Porsche 919 after Wan Shi Tong, a giant black and white cartoon barn owl, if the pace of the new Audi R18 is seriously quick, maybe it should be named the Black Mamba, the world's fastest poisonous snake.

[Deleted]

Well, the good news is that by 3018 the nuclear winter will have finally cleared out, and the mutating descendants of mankind will have figured out how to use wheels again. Maybe Audi-F1 will work out then. Unless Bernie's talking head has been preserved in Futurama head jar.

Also, I want to name the new R18 as Long John Hippopotamus.

[Starfish Primer]

Like in Futurama by 3018 we´ll have Bernie and Dr Ullrich´s heads living in jars.

[Creep89]

Do we know where Audi is going to test next week?

[chernaudi]

Are you referring to a post that Rene Rast made on his instagram account? Even if so, I'm not sure since all that Rast refers to is a test probably in a R18, but not where it'll be.

[Creep89]

Yeah I'm referring to the Facebook post Rast made. I thought maybe someone here knows where they are going to test.

[chernaudi]

I don't know what circuit the test it supposed to happen at. The post mentions a R18 test for Rast, but not the location.

[chernaudi]

Is there any air intakes at the base of the new R18's windshield? I see stuff at the base that looks like either mesh or carbon fiber that contrasts with the rest of the lower "frame" area.

[Artur]

Well, I already expressed my disinterest with WEC, and that is nothing new around here considering Chiana only watches LM(I don't plan to even do that), however, I still have an interest concerning the aero of the R18. I'm curious to see how effective that is and Silverstone will be the perfect place to know that.

When the car got launched, back in November, I posted this:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=9381
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=9427

It turned out that I was right about the front end(I'm not bragging about it, btw ). Audi is indeed using a flap on the central section of their front wing. Actually, the flap is continuous and goes from side to side. I guess most here already spotted it but I'll link one specific shot because, due to poor brightness in most pics, maybe somebody missed it as the central section of the flap is painted in dark grey.


The car is much more refined than the 2015 one. There are some vertical little strakes under the front wing main element, for instance. Because of the even more opened front end, they have VGs/flow conditioners there to improve the efficiency of the aero. As more air goes under the nose now, the splitter seems to be distribuiting the airflow better through the side ducts too.

It will be interesting to see how the R18 compares to the rivals at Silverstone. The prologue suggests that the R18 is slow, at least compared to the 919, but I'll be puzzled if Audi doesn't trash Porsche at a track like Silverstone. I just can't see 919 being anywhere near the R18 ,downforce wise.

[carbon_titanium]

I would not say that R18 is slow... but the impressions that prologue gave is that R18 for now is a bit unreliable. I mean, not so unreliable as vettel's ferrari, but little problems and issues here and there that prevented the car to perform a lot of long runs smoothly.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Artur

Well, I already expressed my disinterest with WEC, and that is nothing new around here considering Chiana only watches LM(I don't plan to even do that), however, I still have an interest concerning the aero of the R18. I'm curious to see how effective that is and Silverstone will be the perfect place to know that.

When the car got launched, back in November, I posted this:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=9381
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=9427

It turned out that I was right about the front end(I'm not bragging about it, btw ). Audi is indeed using a flap on the central section of their front wing. Actually, the flap is continuous and goes from side to side. I guess most here already spotted it but I'll link one specific shot because, due to poor brightness in most pics, maybe somebody missed it as the central section of the flap is painted in dark grey.


The car is much more refined than the 2015 one. There are some vertical little strakes under the front wing main element, for instance. Because of the even more opened front end, they have VGs/flow conditioners there to improve the efficiency of the aero. As more air goes under the nose now, the splitter seems to be distribuiting the airflow better through the side ducts too.

It will be interesting to see how the R18 compares to the rivals at Silverstone. The prologue suggests that the R18 is slow, at least compared to the 919, but I'll be puzzled if Audi doesn't trash Porsche at a track like Silverstone. I just can't see 919 being anywhere near the R18 ,downforce wise.

This is probably the only published picture so far showing the very complex turning vane arrangement under and around the nose section. As this has been mentioned by Zander, the purpose is to improve the flow of air to the underfloor and thereby improve the efficiency of the rear diffuser. This car will once again have the edge in terms of speed through the corners and Silverstone will be an ideal place to demonstrate this. If reliability is there, we shall experience a great race like last year:

(source: http://serakota.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2016-03-25-1)

[chernaudi]

Motorsport Akutell reports that the Audi to F1 rumors should be dead, as Audi Sport has plans to continue in LMP1 after 2017:

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/12939352_1269148013115204_961615256_n.jpg?oh=50ad5948ab065597f19171eebed30177&oe=57064488

[chernaudi]

Motorsport Total has a pretty big article on the R18 that just got released.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Motorsport Total has a pretty big article on the R18 that just got released.

Another very interesting article indeed. I am pleased to read that the drivers' feedback about the new car is very positive. The "best LMP1 car they have ever driven". Sounds promising

It's interesting to read also that Audi could have made the jump to 8MJ but that they opted not to because of the current EoT. 6MJ is indeed the optimal ERS option in the diesel class. Makes you wonder why Appendix B is drafted the way it is if 8MJ is less optimal than 6MJ for the diesel class.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Motorsport Akutell reports that the Audi to F1 rumors should be dead, as Audi Sport has plans to continue in LMP1 after 2017:

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/12939352_1269148013115204_961615256_n.jpg?oh=50ad5948ab065597f19171eebed30177&oe=57064488

Interesting to read that Audi are already working on the concept of the new car that should race under the new-for-2018 regulations. I trust that there is stil much discussion and debate behind closed doors in respect of the new regulations.

[GT6]

i doubt very much that the rumour will ever go away but good to hear audi commit to wec

[GasperG]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Another very interesting article indeed. I am pleased to read that the drivers' feedback about the new car is very positive. The "best LMP1 car they have ever driven". Sounds promising

It's interesting to read also that Audi could have made the jump to 8MJ but that they opted not to because of the current EoT. 6MJ is indeed the optimal ERS option in the diesel class. Makes you wonder why Appendix B is drafted the way it is if 8MJ is less optimal than 6MJ for the diesel class.

I would say because 10MJ petrol doesn't even exist, going higher hybrid class is mainly the weight issue, more efficient engine (diesel) weights more. I think technically It should always be possible to make higher MJ class petrol than diesel in the same weight category.

Current regulations are flawed, I think no one thought that Audi would even consider going to 8 MJ, but when they were close they just made 8 MJ class so that it's no benefit going for it.

[TF110]

There will be a 10mj class in '18. And I think if Audi is still using diesel but not stepping up beyond 6mj, they'll get left behind. The talk is of allowing 3 hybrid systems. Audi uses 1. They will need more one day. Maybe not this year, but in the new rules they will.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Another very interesting article indeed. I am pleased to read that the drivers' feedback about the new car is very positive. The "best LMP1 car they have ever driven". Sounds promising

You speak German, I don't. But I guess it sounds even more promising because I think they mean 'best car ever driven', LMP1 or not, isn't it? If so, this car is a beast.

Da haben wir Stimmen von den Piloten gehört, dass sie noch nie ein solches tolles Auto gefahren seien. Das ist natürlich eine super Rückmeldung für die Techniker."

Is there a technical reason for the Appendix B being the way it is? Why is it necessary to make 6MJ Diesel equivalent to 8MJ Petrol? Is ACO/FIA doing this to spice it up and make sure Toyota and Porsche can challenge Audi? If fuel flow and fuel energy per lap are regulated to make it equal, why make sure the Diesel option can't go to higher ERS and lose overall power to rivals? Is torque controlled? Does Diesel have bigger torque even with equalized fuel energy per lap, so that they need to give Petrols 2MJ extra of ERS to make it equivalent?

All genuine questions, ie, I don't know the answers.

[TF110]

Diesel is way more efficient than petrol. So that's taken into account. Also it tends to come with a heavier engine. But going 8mj may mean Audi is overweight with such a large battery pack and engine. So 6mj seems the best option for now. In the future I think they'll have to downsize their diesel or forgo it altogether.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Artur

Is there a technical reason for the Appendix B being the way it is? Why is it necessary to make 6MJ Diesel equivalent to 8MJ Petrol? Is ACO/FIA doing this to spice it up and make sure Toyota and Porsche can challenge Audi? If fuel flow and fuel energy per lap are regulated to make it equal, why make sure the Diesel option can't go to higher ERS and lose overall power to rivals? Is torque controlled? Does Diesel have bigger torque even with equalized fuel energy per lap, so that they need to give Petrols 2MJ extra of ERS to make it equivalent?

All genuine questions, ie, I don't know the answers.

I must admit also that the whole thing is both confusing and a bit messy. The way the rules are currently defined, all ERS classes are balanced on a "column-by-column" basis, i.e. 2MJ petrol vs 2MJ diesel, 4MJ petrol vs. 4MJ diesel, etc. There is actually not balancing between different ERS classes/columns. There isn't any balancing as a matter of fact due to the ERS incentive which favors higher ERS classes over the lower ERS classes (in the petrol category at least...). So the whole balancing between the 8MJ petrol class and the 6MJ diesel class is just crap, on paper at least. The ACO/FIA are actually playing with the Appendix B figures so as to artficially balance the whole thing.

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with the way the rule are currently made to work. So far we had great entertainment

I however hope that the ACO/FIA will come up with a more "rigorous" set of rules for 2018.