24h Nürburgring/VLN

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

No, because if he stopped the car , he may not have been able to restart it (see the issue that they had restarting the car due to faulty sensor).

Well I assume he had better odds of stopping before the finish line, and hoping it'd restart, than crossing the finish, hoping it'd restart, and then having to complete another lap(where they could have ran out of fuel).

[Spyderman]

They may not have run out of fuel. They did not have enough fuel to do a lap at racing speeds, but they most likely could do a lap at slow speed.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

No, because if he stopped the car , he may not have been able to restart it (see the issue that they had restarting the car due to faulty sensor).

I understood they did not have the fuel for another lap, at any speed.
But surely they could have stopped short, then wound it over the line on the starter motor.
Reminds me of people who break dowm in the middle of a main road or mway and don't have the gumption to use the starter motor to get onto the shoulder or verge...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

GT86s won in 2 different classes

Yes, I was just speaking of the Gazoo cars.

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

I understood they did not have the fuel for another lap, at any speed.
But surely they could have stopped short, then wound it over the line on the starter motor.
Reminds me of people who break dowm in the middle of a main road or mway and don't have the gumption to use the starter motor to get onto the shoulder or verge...

That's what I thought too; I just watched the last 20 minutes of the race again, and the corresponding Radio LeMans coverage, and not John Hindaugh(sp?), but the other main guy, Paul I think, said on that the last lap the Porsche was on was the last lap of it's fuel cycle, 9 laps, meaning Manthey most likely wouldn't have put more in to complete another lap. They said that that Porsche did a 10 lap stint only once in the race before, so assuming they were prepared with enough fuel to complete a 10th lap, is questionable. They said there were a lot of yellows around the track at the time of that 10 lap stint, so a 10th lap at racing speeds would probably spell trouble. Right when the Porsche and Mercedes passed the leading Audi on that last lap, John Hindaugh and Paul said they'd have to do another lap; a 155 lap race for them instead of a 154 lap race, thereby having four cars on the leading lap, instead of the two leading Audis. But some of you were saying that once time expires, once you cross the line, you've finished the race. So John and the other guy saying they'd then need to do another lap, for passing the Audi, wasn't quite true. Passing the Audi was no problem; they'd just have to get close to the finish line, close enough where they could sort of slow down and wait for time to expire.

Watching the coverage though, both cars enter the GP track at speed. With 20 seconds to go on the clock, right after getting on the main straightaway, the Porsche starts to slow down. Why did he slow down at this point is the big question? Intentional, because he thought less time was left on the clock? Or unintentional, as somehow the engine shut off at full racing speed(seems unlikely)? If it was intentional, and he wanted to wait for time to expire before crossing the line, then it's correct to assume he thought he didn't have enough fuel to complete another lap, so he had conceded defeat to the Mercedes, giving up 3rd place, and hoping maybe the Mercedes ran out of fuel on it's 155th lap.

But somehow, in slowing down, according to Marc Lieb, or whoever the interviews were done with, the engine shut off, and I assume in attempting to turn the engine on again, Dumas did not realize his car was coasting, and therefore the car crossed the finish line, thereby then requiring him to do another lap. If he HAD realized where his car was in relation to the finish line, he could have at least braked before the line, and attempt then to get the car restarted, to get it across the finish line.


John Hindaugh says, as the Audi is crossing the finish line, "The Manthey car, big mistake, if he was going to keep his position, he had to stop and not cross the line until the leader crossed the line. Now, he's crossed the line and started lap 155, Paul, but he won't finish it. Paul "He has to cross the finish line in order to finish the race, so he won't be classified". John "If he knew he wouldn't be able to do that last lap, he needed to give it up before he crossed the line and let the winner go across and go behind him(the Audi). At least he would have been able to finish the race. Paul "You will be classified even if you don't cross the line after the checker flag. All cars will be classified, taking into the account the number of complete laps they have covered. So those who complete the same number of laps, the order of which they cross the line, so it doesn't say anything about having to take the checker flag. John "So he's going to finish fourth then?" Paul "Yep". John "So he knew he was giving up fourth place".

So did John and Paul misunderstand the rules then?

In the end, the Manthey Porsche wasn't classified. In fourth place finished the Marc VDS BMW.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

So did John and Paul misunderstand the rules then?

Here are the rules: http://www.24h-rennen.de/uploads/med...012_neu_01.pdf
In article 37 it says that cars have to cross the line under their own power within 20 minutes of the winner getting the checkered flag to be classified.

Also, the pitlane exit is closed when the checkered flag goes out, not when the time expires. So they might have been able to get the car in, add a little fuel, and send it on a final lap.

[Shane001]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Here are the rules: http://www.24h-rennen.de/uploads/med...012_neu_01.pdf
In article 37 it says that cars have to cross the line under their own power within 20 minutes of the winner getting the checkered flag to be classified.

Yeah that's how I would have expected it.

I didn't realise/remember that they actually passed the leading Audi on that last lap, so clearly he'd already slowed up so as not to do another lap either. So I think while the Merc & Porsche were battling tooth and nail they just forgot all about the end game, until it was too late, then ****ed it up.

Made for an unforgettable finish

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

I understood they did not have the fuel for another lap, at any speed.
But surely they could have stopped short, then wound it over the line on the starter motor.
Reminds me of people who break dowm in the middle of a main road or mway and don't have the gumption to use the starter motor to get onto the shoulder or verge...

Both the Porsche racing report and Manthey report refer to "racing speeds" or "full power".

[prototype]

Does the overall winner have to cross the finish line first? I heard the flights were being timed seperately, so I would figure that the clock just stopped at 24 hours, and didn't have to wait for the overall winner like at Le Mans.

I want someone to interview Romain Dumas. Specifically:

Could he see a countdown timer or was he just waiting for the checker?
How did he miss the start / finish line?
Was he out of fuel?
Could he have done just a lap of the GP circuit and finish in the pits or refuel and take his last lap (it would have been inside of 20 minutes)?

[blovell]

Just watched an amazing video of the Nurburgring 24hr Video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yk0F2hMBOI

It really captured the atmosphere.

[GT3.14]

I assume that many of the SP9 entries will partake in the annual trend of not competing in the post 24 hour VLN season to focus on their programmes in their national series and/or Blancpain. Does anyone have any information on who will be sticking around for the rest of the season?

[Creep89]

Phoenix Racing enters two R8 LMS with Stippler/Basseng and Rast/Ludwig.

[Babapapa]

Klaus Ludwig had to pay 10.000€ after his accident at the 24h with the Gembella-McLaren. He crossed the track to blame the Seat-driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RLg4ePaM30

[Dead-Eye]

Very revealing onboard too. I hope Ludwig stays retired this time.

[Acid09]

He has always been a pathetic guy, there's a reason he's probably the most hated German driver in history.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Very revealing onboard too. I hope Ludwig stays retired this time.

Wow. Quite revealing indeed. Any German ten tenthers care to translate what he was shouting?

[Acid09]

The only thing I'm able to understand is "A**hole!!" followed by something else that is numbed out with the commentator talking over it.

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by Acid09

He has always been a pathetic guy, there's a reason he's probably the most hated German driver in history.

What a bizarre comment.

Three time Le Mans winner, FIA GT Champion, DTM Championships, DRM Champinships............and from my experience an all round good guy, so how is he pathetic?

It is posts like this that give forums a bad name.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Samoan Attorney

What a bizarre comment.

Three time Le Mans winner, FIA GT Champion, DTM Championships, DRM Champinships............and from my experience an all round good guy, so how is he pathetic?

It is posts like this that give forums a bad name.

Titles don't make you a respectable human being. Ludwig was always hated, during the DTM years he was constantly booed and despised, I don't know any other driver in the DRM/DTM that was this controversial.

It's nice that you had a positive experience with him but most people can't say the same. His son is of the same breed and on the road to become equally popular.

The video above speaks for itself, the man has absolutely no class and it's always the fault of others with him.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Babapapa

Klaus Ludwig had to pay 10.000€ after his accident at the 24h with the Gembella-McLaren. He crossed the track to blame the Seat-driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RLg4ePaM30

That onboard is insane! Huge hit and a really low-percentage passing spot seemingly from Klaus.

[Babapapa]

Originally Posted by rich07

Any German ten tenthers care to translate what he was shouting?

#%$&§''*! ?%$§$&#*#!

[prototype]

Maybe I'm crazy but I didn't see it that way.

The Seat moved to the center and then back over for the bend. I am sure Ludwig felt he was given room and then the door was shut on him. It also looks like it can be two wide through there.

I think it is really just a racing incident.

[Pandamasque]

There's pretty much a single line through there and virtually no chance to have a small accident if you get it wrong. Seat could give him room and go off at full speed into the barrier. It's not a straight, but a series of bends over huge undulations where the car would unload a lot and in some places take off. The accident happened when the faster car essentially made a dive into the 2nd apex of a 2-apex corner.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The only thing I'm able to understand is "A**hole!!" followed by something else that is numbed out with the commentator talking over it.

I thought that he called the Seat driver an A##hole (maybe twice) but wasnt sure. Whatever he was saying it wasnt exactly an invite for a drink afterwards...

[Babapapa]

here the Ludwig-onboard on the Gembella-McLaren:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNjm08PdA78

remebers me of the rockenfeller-accident