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[Mark Mitchell]

Pumkin - I agree fully! Perhaps BARC should have worked with the BRSCC SE Region and the BMMC SE Region and determined who was available from the regular Brands Hatch guys. Then, if more marshals were needed, put out a general availability form to the rest of us. That seems pretty fair!

[Teletubby]

Why would BARC want to offer an opportunity to people who are members of other clubs? It is a club, run for the benefit of it's members? That said, most BRSCC marshals also marshal for everyone else. I think you'll find that the availability sheets go out to everyone who has marshalled for BARC recently and is on their database. The biggest issue is likely to be who gets selected!

[Mark Mitchell]

You miss my point!
If BARC had a list of regular Brands Marshals they could then give them first refusal on the CART meeting. Then, and only then, if more marshals were needed, do a mailout to other marshals in other areas. This would then keep the regular guys happy and also give others a chance.
The GP is certainly not restricted to Silverstone Marshals!

[Stephen Green]

My own experience of the way BARC allocate marshals is good. After all, I marshal the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the Revival meetings, and yet although a BARC member, I am not a Thruxton marshal. The GP is a little bit different as in the old days allocation was done by a committee made up of the various organising clubs (it is still done this way of course), the difference now is that there are less marshals volunteering and so the previous 'oversubscription' has by and large become a thing of the past.

[Teletubby]

The point was that BARC have mailed their regular marshals, just not only the Brands regulars, all of them. After all they have all put in effort on behalf of BARC, why only invite those who normally marshal at Brands?

[delta37]

I Must agree with teletubby, why should the barc restrict the cart meeting to marshal's that only do brands hatch. i travel all over the country marshalling for the barc and only get down to brands once or twice a year, so why should i not be given the chance to marshal at this meeting. everyone has there own choice of what they want to do in a year, so why should the marshal who only do brands think they should have a monopoly on the cart meeting.

[Mark Mitchell]

I too follow barc up and down the country and do loads of meeting for them, but when it comes to their "Prestigious" events like Goodwood, or Croix and probably CART, I get a note from them saying that I have "Not Been Selected This Time".
After several years of this, I can't help thinking that BARC DO have their favourites!

[Stephen Green]

Welcome to ten-tenths Delta and Observer.

As a regular Brands marshal I can honestly say that under normal circumstances BARC have marshals from all over the country at Brands events, not just the regulars.

[Bodysnatcher]

C'mon Mark (and others)don't be so negative, you MIGHT get in - I might not, it's a bit early to get the knickers in a twistie about it.
As a Brands fixture I hate to feel all this potential resentement building up. Y'see, I have very little need to travel the length and breadth of the country with Brands on my doorstep. So I hope I won't be ruled out 'cos I "only" does Brands...

Oh and BTW - welcome - Al, yer pal

[Mark Mitchell]

I think we've probably exhausted this thread now -so the way I am going to look at it is.....If I get invited, I'll be there drinking your beer, If I am not invited I will watch it on the telly and drink my own beer! Thanks to those who have contributed and made for entertaining discussion

[Woolley]

I do wonder about this whole selection process, and it comes back to are the marshalling resources spread too thinly? I don't care where I marshal, or where the marshals I work with regularly tuen out - I guess most of us concentrate on our more local circuits, and spread out to other places on occasions, particularly when something special happens. I don't have any issue with people who regularly do Thruxton or Brands coming along for the DTM at Donington, the Shelsley centenary or whatever. What I do think is where there is oversubscription, preference should go to those people who are committed to marshalling not to a particular club or circuit. Would you rather stand next to someone who is committed to Brands only for 10 BTCC/F3 race days a year, or someone who does 30-40 (or more) days a year, at a variety of circuits and disciplines, including qualifying only days, and for club as well as headline meetings?

I never want to be in the invidious position of having to choose, but if I were, I know where my ticks would be. Not who you are, where you are or who you pay your membership to, but what you're prepared to do for the sport as a whole.

[Woolley]

Read that again, and it sounds like a rant. It's not, honest, just meant to be a constructive view


I enjoy the company of all marshals, and would share my beer with any of you, and that's the most important thing about all marshals!

[Teletubby]

It's a fair comment Wooley, the only problem is, as I said before, a club has to have a certain loyalty to it's members otherwise it may as well not exist! FWIW I too would rather work with somebody who is putting in 30+ days a year rather than one who only attends 10 days of high profile meetings. Good job it's not my decision really!

[EvilPumpkin]

Wooley, I agree - all I'm saying is that if a big event comes to our circuit, I would expect my marshalling club/circuit to look to the regular marshals first and then fill in any extra places from volunteers.

I realise it's slightly different in the UK with so many clubs and circuits - after all, we only have 2 perm circuits (Mondello and Kirkistown) both of which are marshalled by different clubs and regulars. Given that Kirky is about 3 hours drive from Dublin/Kildare, that's not surprising!

But if an event is oversubscribed (which in this day and age is a minor miracle) then I still think priority should be given to a club's regular marshalling members over anyone else. After that, if different, the circuit marshals at the circuit in question. Then everyone else. It's only fair.

I would be very embarassed if I found I got a place at a big event at the expense of someone who marshals at the circuit/for the club, weekend after weekend.

I totally agree about the experience thing - it's scary how often you come across someone who says things like "I've been marshalling for 25 years" and then when you get into the discussion, they've been doing 2 weekends a year for 25 years - which gives them roughly the same amount of days that I've done in 2. That's why I refer to regular marshals.

[Richard Sneader]

I can only say it again, If you want to be put in for selection for this CART meeting phone BARC and volunteer and wait like the rest of us.
Untill BARC make there choices no one knows who is being picked.
Rich S

[Woolley]

I would be very embarassed if I found I got a place at a big event at the expense of someone who marshals at the circuit/for the club, weekend after weekend.

Yes, I agree totally. And I would expect the locals to run the teams, too (I/Os, etc) because they have the circuit knowledge.

I can stay cheerfully independant in this debate, as if I do go it will be through CART (depending on their policy this year!), but frankly, I'm not raising my hopes too high.

[Stuart Hill]

What is all boils down is this.............. speaking as an ex-chief marshal........


Who do you give the good posts to???
Who do you invite to the best meets???
Who do you reward when possible????

But then........what does the blue book say about my job, as chief marshal??

to paraphrase the blue book, a chief marshal/chief observer is responsible for all trackside marshals!!
and is expected, without it actually being said, to ensure that the venue is manned to the best of his/her abilities.

In other words, the Chief is in charge and responsible for everything that happens trackside and so, in my opinion, will allocate duties with the safety of the venue/drivers/spectators or press as she/he sees fit.

at the end of the day, the reason that people like us, dedicated marshals, are even at race meetings is for one reason and one reason only......

SAFETY !!!!!!!

Anyone, and i include myself in this, that does not receive an invite to a certain meeting should not take it personally, rather take a pace back, look at the big picture, and then wonder if you would like to be the one to make the decision of who gets to attend and who does not !!!

When any meeting is over-subscribed (a rarity I know but it happens), someone has to make the call.

YOU want that job???????

I've had it, would do it again but only because I haven't had to do it for a few years now. It can burn you out and make you want to stop marshalling!!!

In other words, if I get invited....great..
if not...... then start looking for tickets

[blackx]

I've got tickets..........

[racerkeke]

Well guys, it's all yours. CART says it's not bringing any observers from North America to any overseas races this year, so any "colonists" you see will have come on their own dime. Since my dime is worth about 5 cents US I think I'm stayin' home. But you guys know how to do this, you'll be fine and have a great time. Maybe the Brits who come over for Long Beach can get some copies of the flagging guidelines back to you before the event. Assuming that's not yet another baby they've thrown out with the bathwater.

I am very apprehensive about how this new costcutting measure is going to work in Mexico and Germany, but I guess it's out of my hands.

keke

[EvilPumpkin]

erk - is the flagging much different?

[Bodysnatcher]

they do like their white flags....a lot
MWW (on yellow) had to forcibly remove the white from the blue flagger(!!) at the Indy F1. He pointed out that he was better placed to use it - more sparingly.
Practice sessions for F1 were the worst, any car at less than full out banzai qually pace and the local guys were itching to wave that white. And most of us know how often you get an F1 car (relatively) dawdling round on its slow down or warm up lap.
The guys explained to us that that style of flagging was what was expected at CART meetings and they assumed F1 to be similar.

oh, and there are few serious differnces.
Stu will try to keep us right I'm sure.

[Stoowert]

To say that CART is going thru a bit of an unheaval at the moment is understating things a tad! They make Octagon look like, well, an Organisation! The new Chief Observer, Jim Swintel, has been told that no US personnel will be taken to any of CART's away trips. This includes Mexico and Germany, where last time all the land-lines were manned by Americans. All they seem worried about at the moment is running St. Petersberg as there is no SCCA Region in the area! (Funny that, with Sebring a Formula Ford's bounce away!) I intend to find out as much as possible before our trip to Long Beach but if not, I think I know which people to find!
Thank goodness for Cal Club and Ceci Smith in Long Beach!

[racerkeke]

Who knows what CART's flagging rules are now? Guess we'll see in St. Pete... well, maybe not, given what I've heard so far. Stoo, you're probably right, it'll take 'em until Long Beach to figure it out for 2003.

keke

[Starter]

Hi Keke. I take it you're going to St Pete?

I've decided not to, at least until the dust settles and we see what the new program looks like.

For those going to Long Beach, there is not any huge difference in flagging rules. I assume you use FIA rules everywhere. In the US it's real interesting when you work an event with groups from CART, ALMS and SCCA on the same weekend. "Let's see this is the **** group, so that's a double waving pink flag and a stationary chartreuse."

[Woolley]

I assume you use FIA rules everywhere

Nope. We only use FIA rules for FIA races, not even the whole meeting - ie Waved everythings (yellow, green included). Otherwise it's stationary most things [including yellow preceeding a waved], and waved yellow or blue only when felt necessary. Of course every series has different safety (read 'Pace') car regs - there's a whole other thread on this somewhere. For real fun you need to do an FIA GT meeting, with British F3 and GT in support, and a few other categories thrown in. Then the FIA race does one thing, the F3 and GT each have different regs, and the support series will have a yellow/black quartered flags instead of the safety car. I have seen an occasion where three adjacent posts were doing something different, and all of the observers were hidden because they were reading the instructions for clues. Funnier still was when two of the posts simultaneously changed to what the other one was doing, because they both assumed the other knew better!