Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

They can’t just dump Bahrain -- in fact, it’s probably the most stable date on the calender right now aside from Le Mans as the WEC has a contract through 2017.

I know, but, unless they likely go to 11 rounds, that's the one I see most likely to go.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

And what does IMSA add in place of COTA?

Mid-Ohio is in high demand from fans.

If the IndyCar revival attempt falls through maybe they can swoop in and run Cleveland.

Just two suggestions off the top of my head, one a very strong possibility the other rather unlikely.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I know, but, unless they likely go to 11 rounds, that's the one I see most likely to go.

Without Bahrain, what would be the other races? Silverstone, Spa, Le Mans, Nurburgring, Road America, Canada or Mexico, Fuji, China and what other two tracks?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Without Bahrain, what would be the other races? Silverstone, Spa, Le Mans, Nurburgring, Road America, Canada or Mexico, Fuji, China and what other two tracks?

I meant if the calendar stays as is. And even at that, I can't count... Oh boy... time for bed I think.

[Deleted]

There's also the question of Interlagos returning (subject to them wanting to actually return + Fittipaldi's office and ACO relationships not still being crap) and Kyalami (subject to rumors/speeches being true + FIA-ACO daring to step out of precious Grade 1).

Anyway, we've had the Road America rumor before in the last few years as well without it materializing or ACO even making speeches or mentions of it, as they have made of other circuits whether serious or not. So I think my prediction percentages for the US options are if COTA indeed goes down as merrily as it seems:
- Indy Boral 40%
- New Tilke Eurodisneyland when F1 eventually makes it as COTA replacement 30%
- Nothing at all, Montreal and/or Mexico "representing North America" shiz 20%
- Road America 9%
- Some other US venue 1%

[MagVanisher]

Since COTA will not be hosting a WEC round soon, is their hosting of Formula One and other motorsports still affected?

But anyways, let's hope that the upgrade at Road America won't have the Tilke treatment (aside from the pitlane).

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I know, but, unless they likely go to 11 rounds, that's the one I see most likely to go.

I'm guessing Bahrain pays a nice price to host WEC, and the budget of WEC depends on said race. It's there as long as the Bahrainians want it, it won't be dumped by the series organizers.

[MoMedic9019]

Joeb, I agree.

Chiana, only two options exist in the US currently, and only one of those has been in talks with the ACO. And it's not Indy. The rumor has existed for this long because it's been discussed this long. Only since COTA began its severe financial issues has it become very serious.

MagVanisher, there will be no Tilke-esque changes. It doesn't require those to be considered a grade 1. As far as COTA and F1, they couldn't afford Indycar at a steep discount.

[MoMedic9019]

Duplicate post

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

MagVanisher, there will be no Tilke-esque changes. It doesn't require those to be considered a grade 1. As far as COTA and F1, they couldn't afford Indycar at a steep discount.

Why the presumption that it will become grade 1 and not just upgraded but staying as grade 2?

I don't know if the real grade requirements are even publically available anyhere, but looking at all other grade 1 cars and how they're nearly all so tilkenized, I'm not going to believe that just new pits would make it grade 1 and why would they even seek it, it's not like F1 is going there.

Now there would be an oxymoron for Chiana: grade 1 track that doesn't suck.

ps. RA is actually missing from that list, because the license expired in 2013 (2012 list).

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Chiana, only two options exist in the US currently, and only one of those has been in talks with the ACO. And it's not Indy. The rumor has existed for this long because it's been discussed this long. Only since COTA began its severe financial issues has it become very serious.

Two things

a) Please, please, don't take this the wrong way, but after your Nissan 'intel' fell through I'm not really sure how accurate your facts are?

b) The FIA WEC and Indianapolis Motor Speedway president Doug Boles met last summer to discuss the possibility of holding a future round at the legendary circuit, and could continue the discussion next month in Detroit. ----- “We haven’t focused completely on what it would be; we’d welcome the WEC or IMSA, or both, and we’d definitely want to do it in 2016, if we can make it happen, because we’re celebrating the 100th running of the Indianapolis 500 and with so much history and innovation surrounding the track, high-tech sports cars would fit perfectly into everything we’re working towards a little over a year from now”
http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/ite...n-to-2016-date

[TheMightyM]

Well one thing is clear, whatever the improvements at RA are, they can’t be massively expensive, because otherwise there would be no return on investment to the track.

One other thing to throw out there: There’s always the possibility that this is just a big flirt by the WEC to get a more favorable deal from some other track (Montreal/Mexico City/Indy/Nurburgring) just as talk of Monza a couple of years ago was apparently aimed at getting a better deal from Spa. And let's be honest, Montreal, Mexico City, the Nurburgring, or even Indy would be a better fit for the WEC's current business model than Road America.

[chernaudi]

It also is worth mentioning that RA isn't too very far away from two major metro areas in the US Midwest (or the US in general): Milwaukee, and, more importantly, Chicago.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Two things

a) Please, please, don't take this the wrong way, but after your Nissan 'intel' fell through I'm not really sure how accurate your facts are?

If you want to discuss Nissan, PM me, I'll tell you who I was discussing things with and why some things happened the way they did. I will not talk about that in a public forum with you.

b) The FIA WEC and Indianapolis Motor Speedway president Doug Boles met last summer to discuss the possibility of holding a future round at the legendary circuit, and could continue the discussion next month in Detroit. ----- “We haven’t focused completely on what it would be; we’d welcome the WEC or IMSA, or both, and we’d definitely want to do it in 2016, if we can make it happen, because we’re celebrating the 100th running of the Indianapolis 500 and with so much history and innovation surrounding the track, high-tech sports cars would fit perfectly into everything we’re working towards a little over a year from now”
http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/ite...n-to-2016-date

The chat that Indy has had with the ACO was very cursory. It was pretty much "hey check out what we have, we'd like a race"... there was nothing else. There have been no discussions since.

As for how I know this, it's been a plan I've been involved with since 2012. I have immediate family on the BoD.....

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Well one thing is clear, whatever the improvements at RA are, they can’t be massively expensive, because otherwise there would be no return on investment to the track.

The money has been allocated since 2010 as part of a facilites improvement project. The current media center is over 30 years old, and is in dire need of replacement. And the ACO isn't the only series that would like it to happen.

One other thing to throw out there: There’s always the possibility that this is just a big flirt by the WEC

This is no flirt.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by deggis

Why the presumption that it will become grade 1 and not just upgraded but staying as grade 2?

The presumption is not on my part. They are able to be graded as a 2, and still hold an event like this should the minimum requirements, safety, infrastructure, medical etc.. all meet the Grade 1 minimum requirements.

I don't know if the real grade requirements are even publically available anyhere, but looking at and how they're nearly all so tilkenized, I'm not going to believe that just new pits would make it grade 1 and why would they even seek it, it's not like F1 is going there.

It's not just the pit complex. There are other things. But, the available requirements only apply to NEW construction. Existing circuits are able to be granted a waiver of sorts so long as they meet the bulk of the requirements.

ps. RA is actually missing from that list, because the license expired in 2013 (2012 list).

It's expensive to maintain, and when no series currently requires it, there isn't a reason to spend the coin.

[YZFrider]

^^This is what MRLS did to host the Moto GP events, even though the track is not grade 1. Increased runoff area (anyone remember the bridge that crossed at turn 9 to the campgrounds only to be moved up near the corkscrew), medical infrastructure unlike any of the other race events (ground crews at every corner and track inspections by medical doctors in the fast cars).

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by YZFrider

^^This is what MRLS did to host the Moto GP events, even though the track is not grade 1. Increased runoff area (anyone remember the bridge that crossed at turn 9 to the campgrounds only to be moved up near the corkscrew), medical infrastructure unlike any of the other race events (ground crews at every corner and track inspections by medical doctors in the fast cars).

Yep!

The walls and fencing at 1, 5, 6, 8, and 12 have already been changed, a slight bit more asphalt is down in a few areas, and the depth of the traps at 1, and 12 have increasedand the pit entry has been widened. That was all done on the request of NASCAR, not the FIA/ACO,

The medical complex exceeds minimums, as does the local GEMS/HEMS and hosptial capabilites.

But, the pits complex must be changed. There will be further work with kerbing, runoff/grasscrete, and barriers in cerain locations.

[Rodger Davies]

COTA closing? Road America possibly being in line for WEC?

Am I dreaming?

Great news; don't **** up the track.

[chernaudi]

When one considers what tracks are on the F1 calendar (especially street courses and tracks like Spa and Suzuka), it probably won't take much to upgrade a lot of US/NA tracks to psudo-Grade 1 standards. Remember that the WEC are only required to run on Grade 2 tracks, and Le Mans is Grade 2.

It seems that the fuss/preference to Grade 1 tracks isn't the tracks themselves so much as it's because Grade 1 tracks virtually match LM's pit complex and infield area, namely hospitality and infrastructure.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Yep!

The walls and fencing at 1, 5, 6, 8, and 12 have already been changed, a slight bit more asphalt is down in a few areas, and the depth of the traps at 1, and 12 have increasedand the pit entry has been widened. That was all done on the request of NASCAR, not the FIA/ACO,

The medical complex exceeds minimums, as does the local GEMS/HEMS and hosptial capabilites.

But, the pits complex must be changed. There will be further work with kerbing, runoff/grasscrete, and barriers in cerain locations.

Are you talking about Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, or about Road America, above?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

Are you talking about Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, or about Road America, above?

Road America

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

When one considers what tracks are on the F1 calendar (especially street courses and tracks like Spa and Suzuka), it probably won't take much to upgrade a lot of US/NA tracks to psudo-Grade 1 standards. Remember that the WEC are only required to run on Grade 2 tracks, and Le Mans is Grade 2.

It seems that the fuss/preference to Grade 1 tracks isn't the tracks themselves so much as it's because Grade 1 tracks virtually match LM's pit complex and infield area, namely hospitality and infrastructure.

Correct. I think the confusion arises as those tend to be the most modern facilities. If you are going to showcase a product, you want it done with the newest, most updated facility. COTA ticked all the boxes, but, with the unsustainable losses, difficulties in the event staff and facilities, lack of promotion and the constant FU'ps. by the promoters... it's not surprising where they have found themselves.

They can't pay their taxes, local money is going away, series can't be afforded to run there...and a few are unhappy with what they've gotten. I'm sure it's a nice place, but, when I've heard it can cost over $60 for two hotdogs, sodas, and fries... there's a problem.

[chernaudi]

Lots of people are hoping that the guys who own COTA now give up and Tavo heads a group that takes over COTA. But if a buyer can't be found, WEC is off to RA if/when the garage area and press/hospitality areas are updated, and F1 will be content with Mexico City and Montreal or settle for a new Grade 1 track.

Since the WEC wants LM-style facilities, that's the change that most NA circuits will have to do to attract the attention of the ACO/FIA. Even when European based teams ran in the ALMS, they often said that the infrastructure and facilities were "old school" in a bad way, but they liked that the tracks were "old school" in a good way.

Combine the best of both worlds, and you'll get a good shot at having the WEC some place other than COTA. After all, it seems that the ACO and FIA can give a damn less about the tracks, it's the garage are and press and hospitality areas that they and the teams really want.

[YZFrider]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It seems that the fuss/preference to Grade 1 tracks isn't the tracks themselves so much as it's because Grade 1 tracks virtually match LM's pit complex and infield area, namely hospitality and infrastructure.

Pretty much. It's all about the suites. You actually see this popping up newer stadiums for other sports such as baseball, basketball and football. Those suites are rented for the entire season by the sponsors or other VIPs, big money right there.