Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[TF110]

I see class 1 like this- as usual, the U.S. will go their way while the rest of the world are doing something else together. The tusc prototype regs will leave much to be desired. Instead of doing something with brand relevance in a proven package in gt500, they'll go with "dp-lmp2". Class 1 has huge potential with 6 top brands on board. I wanna believe the ford lmp1 rumors, but I dont see it hapening alongside the gte.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by TF110

I see class 1 like this- as usual, the U.S. will go their way while the rest of the world are doing something else together. The tusc prototype regs will leave much to be desired. Instead of doing something with brand relevance in a proven package in gt500, they'll go with "dp-lmp2". Class 1 has huge potential with 6 top brands on board. I wanna believe the ford lmp1 rumors, but I dont see it hapening alongside the gte.

Doesn't really seem fair to say the "TUSC prototype regs" as it will be the ACO P2 regs as a whole that are lame.

I'd support Class One for a top class if they would drop the 4 banger turbo restriction and open it up to other configurations. Even the old DP super-tightly-regulated engine crap would be an improvement as it would at least allow some variety in sound.

[Rcz]

What would Class1 bring to the USA motorsports world? We already have a GT series, and a silhouette touring car series. Do we want it just because?

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Rcz

What would Class1 bring to the USA motorsports world? We already have a GT series, and a silhouette touring car series. Do we want it just because?

This is probably why the idea has never got off the ground. What do NA manufacturers have to gain from entering Class 1? They're being served well enough by what's already on offer.

By the way I didn't make my comments as an indication that anything is happening, they were just to clarify that this is a red line for JAF involving themselves in America.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Accident

Doesn't really seem fair to say the "TUSC prototype regs" as it will be the ACO P2 regs as a whole that are lame.

I'd support Class One for a top class if they would drop the 4 banger turbo restriction and open it up to other configurations. Even the old DP super-tightly-regulated engine crap would be an improvement as it would at least allow some variety in sound.

Tusc prototypes want that "brand recognition", thats why theyll allow for manyfacturer bodywork on a p2 shell. If thats what they want, its a problem solved by doing class 1/gt500/dtm. But tusc also wants every little aspect dumbed down to make competition equal. Theyll bop everything before they can bop it. Just like they do with wind tunnel testing the dp's to not give anyone any chance to develop aero. Thats where its different from the new 'crap-rules' p2.

Originally Posted by Rcz

What would Class1 bring to the USA motorsports world? We already have a GT series, and a silhouette touring car series. Do we want it just because?

That question has been answered before. Like what I said above in reply to Accident. Tusc is insistent on keeping the look alike aspect in prototype, well you have 6 manufacturers with cars that have just that going on with a ruleset that works. So theyre going about doing things their way but its irrelevant to just about everyone else but them. They cant run their version of p2 at LM. Why even use LM style cars?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by TF110

They cant run their version of p2 at LM. Why even use LM style cars?

Cost. The current rules, particularly on the DP side, are much more expensive than the upcoming P2 rules.

Class One is expected to be considerably more costly than revised P2.

[carbsmith]

It's not particularly fair to compare the costs of a category that actually exists and thus of course actually costs like twice as much as it was estimated to and one that doesn't exist and is still operating on fairy tail math.

The cost issue is not necessarily relevant anyways, IMSA P looks fairly locked at around half a dozen serious cars or less because all pay driver money goes to PC and exposure driven sponsorship is basically non-existent. Class-1 at least probably guarantees you ~4-5 manufacturers consistently involved in US sports car racing forcing at least one serious car onto the grid rather than the current state of one Chevrolet and half a Honda.

On the other hand I wouldn't say Class 1 would necessarily be safe at Daytona, the cars are lighter than a DP and have nothing to keep them on the ground.

[MitchZ06]

Those manufacturers actually need to build those cars and spend the money running teams, the status quo won't change sorry. Chev likes their current engine and badging deal and it'll continue into new P2, Honda will likely want to do the same and there's other manufacturers in the US who would be happy to spend the money to produce an engine and bodywork and let someone else foot the bill for the actual day to day running of the team.

Class 1 wouldn't work in the US. Ever.

[YZFrider]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Cost. The current rules, particularly on the DP side, are much more expensive than the upcoming P2 rules.

Class One is expected to be considerably more costly than revised P2.

No doubt. However, would they not be a spectacle to be hold? I look back at the last 2 years of the ALMS, we only had 2-3 lmps competing as full season entries. Yet it was still exciting the senses: The cars were fast, they looked sharp, they sounded awesome, and fans still flocked to the races regardless of the number count. I guess my point is, if Class 1 did take off, would that not draw the sponsors to the events. With sponsors come money, and with that the budgets necessary to run such machinery. Cost problem check. Yes I know it's not as simple, but that's the gist.

On the other hand, I do agree there is too much competiton here in America for a separate series of Class 1 to take off. NASCAR, Supercross, IMSA, PWC etc. At best, Class 1 would have to fit into a series a la the top class in the Weathertech sports car championship. But you do that, then the Le Mans link is further torn.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Those manufacturers actually need to build those cars and spend the money running teams, the status quo won't change sorry. Chev likes their current engine and badging deal and it'll continue into new P2, Honda will likely want to do the same and there's other manufacturers in the US who would be happy to spend the money to produce an engine and bodywork and let someone else foot the bill for the actual day to day running of the team.

Class 1 wouldn't work in the US. Ever.

Theres nothing to indicate a class 1 car wouldnt be able to run a chevy v8, at least in America. The dp's run it because its cheap and available. GT500 made an exception for Honda to run a mid engine car, why not let a chevy v8? Who says it has to be a chevy? Why not a cadillac ATS or CTS coupe like the German 3 and Lexus do? This is all hypothetical anyway. But itd at least give them their brand ID and super fast cars, not to mention everyone else signed up for class 1.

[MitchZ06]

It's not the rules, it's the manufacturers. Those that want brand recognition have it as the rules in Tudor are now and into the future.

[Rcz]

Trans-Am has better potential then Class1. It's cheaper, has more cars on the grid, has the American big 3 support. But also has name recognition. If they play their card right then they could have another resurgence one day.


I think NASCAR just wants a sprint series with international recognition but without actually trying to make their own rules. So if it fails they can say,"well at least it wasn't our money."

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Trans-Am has better potential then Class1. It's cheaper, has more cars on the grid, has the American big 3 support. But also has name recognition. If they play their card right then they could have another resurgence one day.

Class One cars will be perfect for Trans-Am, so ITR and GTA didn't push their rulebook onto SCCA's other series is beyond me! Leaving it to IMSA and left it to rot is so stupid!

Honestly, I think a different group other than IMSA should manage TUSC and that stillborn US DTM series (if that's confirmed dead). That group will allow both Class One and souped-up LMP2 cars race in the prototype class, and they should dictate on the teams on whether they want brand recognition or go to Le Mans?

If some teams like Action Express Racing and Wayne Taylor Racing want the former, go to Class One. For others who want to go the latter or don't have the money to buy Class One cars, choose P2 cars!

[Speed-King]

Class One cars will be perfect for Trans-Am

Lol, what? Trans-Am has strength in numbers, but it's essentially club racing teams running 15 year old tube chassis. Class 1 would be so far over their heads in terms of cost and complexity, it wouldn't even be funny. At least the three German manufacturers are also very much concerned with their brand identity and presentation, so even if you were able to run a Class 1 car from an open trailer and out of a mom&pop-shop, they probably wouldn't even let you.

[DeezPutz]

I just want to post to say Trans Am is terrible and not an alternative to anything. It's club level racing.

[TheMightyM]

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has an update on the WEC to Road America rumors. Seems that they are just rumors:

One rumor that has persisted through the summer is that Road America could be a candidate for a race in the FIA World Endurance Championship sports-car series, but [track president George] Bruggenthies and the head of the WEC quashed that.

"I know the people, but I've not had any serious conversations to put them on our schedule," Bruggenthies said. "It's expensive. You've got to pay for a lot of transport. ... I don't see the business plan as working for us."

[Coach Ep]

I'm wondering if any of you have seen a Trans Am paddock recently, the series has been/is booming and getting more professional by the day.

but I agree Class 1 is too far out of their league - for now. Might be different in 2 or 3 years time.

And it's a good thing TA is not an alternative for anything - it simply doesn't need to be, it's exciting the way it is!

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has an update on the WEC to Road America rumors. Seems that they are just rumors:

I'm not going to get into the politics, but Bruggenthies isn't the guy that makes the final choices on anything...

Secondly, 2016 was never in the works. 2018, is possible but ONLY if...

NASCRAP gets off it's horse and makes a descion to go to Road America, they've refused to commit to a date for the last two years, and as of this last weekend, it's not in the cards for 2016 either. Looks like a 2017 date is the target, and if they get it secured, a 2018 date for the WEC is what would be desired. The contracts are signed with an open date on Road Americas part, and is in the hands of NASCAR.. they just wont' sign it

Road America is unlikely to move forward with the pit complex if Sprint Cup doesn't show....there is little incentive, and the WEC isn't enough. Knowing they'd pack 200,000 people into the joint for NASCAR at $100/ticket and knowing they could make $20 million in ticket sales alone?(plus play off the new pit/VIP/media complex, and have a bankroll to pay for other series)...... that's motivation. Hell, in '93 with Mansell running CART they put 65,000 people in for race day alone. You couldn't move in the facility, and backups to get in the place were measured in tens of miles. Literally....

The WEC is not likely to re-negotiate with COTA for a post 2016 date unless drastic improvements are made this year, and next in terms of attendance.

EDIT: I should also add, that if COTA is dumped(and is highly probable)it will be relaced with a different round for 2017. Montreal/Mexico are the short list.

[Deleted]

Why would Sprint Cup need new pit complex if Nationwide, or whatever it's called now, plays just fine with the way things currently are?

And even if such updates would be constructed, why would they be European styled actual physical garages (the ones WEC lusts for), NASCAR doesn't exactly require them? What about the VIP facilities and other corporate crap.

Anyway... you did say some time ago that Indianapolis wasn't one of those States targets that WEC had approached, yet here we are again, both parties saying strict no to RA appearance (the hotels excuse from ACO couldn't be 'fixed' even with new facilities) and that no true talks have been made. Yet with Indianapolis they have met actually before, possible multiple times since the initial meeting last year, and now ACO insist on that being the only possible target in US beyond COTA. Which is a lie of course, but their preference regardless. So if COTA is ditched and they go to Indy, at least until F1 constructs new soulless Tilkedrome to replace their US Grand Prix, do we think that ACO-FIA would give moment of thought for second US race, even if the facilities were upgraded... they'd go to Montreal or Mexico for second NA event before that

[Rcz]

They would have to reprofile the entire track at Road America for the WEC to race there.

Nah...Trans Am don't need Class1. Tube frames TA cars make better races then the Class1 cars.

[Deleted]

To think there were full house LMP1s still racing at RA... or you know, LIME ROCK, two years ago from today

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Why would Sprint Cup need new pit complex if Nationwide, or whatever it's called now, plays just fine with the way things currently are?

Because they arrive on Thursday night, unload on Friday, race Saturday, and leave Saturday. The entire paddock is closed to spectators. They work on their cars under pop up tents, or under the back of the lift gate. It's a really unimpressive deal. Very amature looking... They put up a huge amount of chain link fence, and the closesest you can get is about 300 feet.

And even if such updates would be constructed, why would they be European styled actual physical garages (the ones WEC lusts for), NASCAR doesn't exactly require them? What about the VIP facilities and other corporate crap.

Yes, then the plan was detailed in 2007(? I don't exactly remember) The intent was to have garages like you'd find at any F1 circuit, with media/VIP over the top with tribunes alongside for fans/spectators. Sprint Cup requires garages, they can be remote, but, they have to have them. The current media tower was built in 1984, and even though it's undergone renovations and improvements, it's showing it's age quite badly. http://www.scharch.org/Road_America_.../RA-Pagoda.htm

Anyway... you did say some time ago that Indianapolis wasn't one of those

I did, and that was what I had known to be true at the time....I didn't make the TUDOR race this year, but, in talks I've had with relatives/family who sit on the BoD they understand it to be a stopgap if it even happens. The interest is higher on that of Indy than of the ACO.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Rcz

They would have to reprofile the entire track at Road America for the WEC to race there.

Uh. No.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Nah...Trans Am don't need Class1. Tube frames TA cars make better races then the Class1 cars.

Funnily enough, TA2 is kind of like Class One Lite: They all use the same safety cell(though it's tube frame, not carbon fiber), with unique parts bolted onto them to replicate the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger. There's more underpinnings shared between them than in Class One, but there's still a lot of frame that's unique to each model to make the bodywork fit.

Give TA2 WTCC-style widebodies and that's as close to Class One as the USA would ever need. (and, frankly, TA2 does NOT need that)

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Give TA2 WTCC-style widebodies and that's as close to Class One as the USA would ever need. (and, frankly, TA2 does NOT need that)

They actually do just that in Costa Rica: