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Old 30 Mar 2014, 00:38 (Ref:3386298)   #1
Casper
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Red Bull Unhappy

I have wondered how long you can stuff people around before they bite back, escpecially those spending millions of their own money

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...330-zqok3.html

It may be a strategy to get their own way but the FIA cannot afford to antagonise those who finance F1.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 03:24 (Ref:3386325)   #2
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Red Bull will stay in F1 as long as it suits their purpose and not a moment longer .

We can not afford more than one Ferrari ..

If Red Bull are unhappy they should pack up and leave, they won't be missed ..
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 03:56 (Ref:3386329)   #3
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Red Bull will stay in F1 as long as it suits their purpose and not a moment longer .

We can not afford more than one Ferrari ..

If Red Bull are unhappy they should pack up and leave, they won't be missed ..
Jeez Jeremy!
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 04:35 (Ref:3386337)   #4
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Red Bull will stay in F1 as long as it suits their purpose and not a moment longer .

We can not afford more than one Ferrari ..

If Red Bull are unhappy they should pack up and leave, they won't be missed ..
And take two teams with them. If I was the boss I would shut both teams down and not sell. The FIA deserve a kick in the slats and that would definitely do the trick. What is the issue with Ferrari aprt from them thinking they own the series and should call the shots?
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 05:03 (Ref:3386340)   #5
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So they've made the most massive technical changes in a couple decades, or more, and the cars are a second a lap slower at the early races.

If it's just a second a lap at the first races, it would not surprise me if by the end of the year, this year's cars are going faster than last year's. Lots of changes usually goes with a steep learning curve and unusually fast progress.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 05:23 (Ref:3386341)   #6
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And take two teams with them. If I was the boss I would shut both teams down and not sell. The FIA deserve a kick in the slats and that would definitely do the trick. What is the issue with Ferrari aprt from them thinking they own the series and should call the shots?
Teflonso?
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 06:25 (Ref:3386347)   #7
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I think Mateschitz is playing a classic Piranha Club move. He knows very well that F1 requires sharp elbows to be successful, and he's just deploying a pair to protect his investment. Equally, I think if he did fold up his tent over this one episode, the damage to his brand would be massive. It would make the Red Bull brand seem petulant and unable to stay the course. I think this is brinkmanship. I suspect that he knows that he's unlikely to win this battle, and faced with that, is going try and capitalize on that for maximum political effect so that he has a greater chance of getting his way in future.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 07:54 (Ref:3386367)   #8
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I think Mateschitz is playing a classic Piranha Club move. He knows very well that F1 requires sharp elbows to be successful, and he's just deploying a pair to protect his investment. Equally, I think if he did fold up his tent over this one episode, the damage to his brand would be massive. It would make the Red Bull brand seem petulant and unable to stay the course. I think this is brinkmanship. I suspect that he knows that he's unlikely to win this battle, and faced with that, is going try and capitalize on that for maximum political effect so that he has a greater chance of getting his way in future.
You and I would think that way but the movers and shakers of this world take a different view. RB will crank up the PR and spin machine and by the time they are finished the FIA will be the bully and RB the down trodden victims. The spin and PR have already started in case you haven't noticed and F1 have got a lot more to lose than RB. Interesting times ahead me thinks. RB will win in the end, either they get their own way or F1 are without two teams if they carry out their threat.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 08:04 (Ref:3386378)   #9
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Maybe if he moans enough then they will change things around to benefit his team again.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 09:02 (Ref:3386401)   #10
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Maybe if he moans enough then they will change things around to benefit his team again.
That is exactly what he wants and there is nothing wrong with that. He learned everything he knows from Ferrari!

He also holds all the cards as Ferrari once did and they used them to benefit their cause though they did it in secret and this threat is in the open.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 09:04 (Ref:3386403)   #11
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Red Bull will stay in F1 as long as it suits their purpose and not a moment longer .

We can not afford more than one Ferrari ..

If Red Bull are unhappy they should pack up and leave, they won't be missed ..
F1 should not be dictated to by anyone, if Ferrari had not been allowed to push people about then F1 would be better now, so perhaps the best think to do is get rid of the problem Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 11:02 (Ref:3386500)   #12
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Agreed. Get rid of Ferrari's Veto power. No single team should be able to dictate what happens in F1. Yes they should have a say, but the FIA shouldn't bow down to a single team, whether it's RB or Ferrari.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 11:11 (Ref:3386505)   #13
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You and I would think that way but the movers and shakers of this world take a different view. RB will crank up the PR and spin machine and by the time they are finished the FIA will be the bully and RB the down trodden victims. The spin and PR have already started in case you haven't noticed and F1 have got a lot more to lose than RB. Interesting times ahead me thinks. RB will win in the end, either they get their own way or F1 are without two teams if they carry out their threat.
Some people already think the FIA are the bullies.
That comes from trying to force an issue that in some peoples eyes is inappropriate for a sporting regulatory body.
when I watched Malaysia with people who are not motorsport people they were vocal in their disapproval in some actions from a sporting point of view.

This is going to get worse, not better, given the present direction in the sport.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 12:05 (Ref:3386547)   #14
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Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w View Post
I think Mateschitz is playing a classic Piranha Club move. He knows very well that F1 requires sharp elbows to be successful, and he's just deploying a pair to protect his investment. Equally, I think if he did fold up his tent over this one episode, the damage to his brand would be massive. It would make the Red Bull brand seem petulant and unable to stay the course. I think this is brinkmanship. I suspect that he knows that he's unlikely to win this battle, and faced with that, is going try and capitalize on that for maximum political effect so that he has a greater chance of getting his way in future.
+1
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 12:11 (Ref:3386557)   #15
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Henry should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
let him throw his toys out of the cot - nobody's forcing him to play
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 13:23 (Ref:3386587)   #16
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Jeez Jeremy!
I know it appears rather harsh, but I think Red Bull (not unlike other teams) are very self serving... And would leave in a flash if it was not working as a business model for them..

They have won everything for four seasons which is brilliant, however now it's another teams turn hopefully they will not dominate..
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 14:11 (Ref:3386604)   #17
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I know it appears rather harsh, but I think Red Bull (not unlike other teams) are very self serving... And would leave in a flash if it was not working as a business model for them..

They have won everything for four seasons which is brilliant, however now it's another teams turn hopefully they will not dominate..
You would not have to be a rocket scientist to work that out and if anyone else thinks otherwise they are dellusional. They are there for their own reasons and if anyone upsets those reasons they it would be reasonable to think they would bale out. Toyota did it, Honda did it so what is new in that?
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 16:32 (Ref:3386675)   #18
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Spot on Jeremy.

Red Bull are only in F1 to sell there products. As were BMW and Toyota I believe. After all they didn't hang around when performances dropped.

Some teams are about the racing and Red Bull are not so much, thus I believe while a big part of F1 history would go if they left, it wouldn't affect the sport.

I would prefer a 26 car grid of racing teams personally.

I would also prefer F1 to return to a slightly less gimmicky version of a proper motorsport.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 17:14 (Ref:3386699)   #19
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Well a 26 car grid with only 4 competative cars would be not viable for either fans or TV and F1 would soon die
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 23:42 (Ref:3386867)   #20
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Well a 26 car grid with only 4 competative cars would be not viable for either fans or TV and F1 would soon die
Therein lays the dilemma for those who want to call RB's bluff and they know it. Trying to replace them at the level they play at would be impossible. I think the other problem is that a many times world champion would be out of a job and that would not be a good look for the sport. If an accommodation for him was made another driver in a top team would have to be given the boot, very messy all round. Putting F1 on a commercial basis has led to the scenario that teams will come and go as they desire and they do not see any loyalty issues to the "sport". Years ago it was enthusiasts such as Williams started out as who had a loyalty and a desire to race for racings sake.
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 00:10 (Ref:3386873)   #21
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I know it appears rather harsh, but I think Red Bull (not unlike other teams) are very self serving... And would leave in a flash if it was not working as a business model for them..

They have won everything for four seasons which is brilliant, however now it's another teams turn hopefully they will not dominate..
it does seem harsh but in truth it applies to ALL F1 teams, not just the Red Bulls and manufacturers like Fiat, Renault, Honda, and Mercedes Benz.

I actually think a lot of the 'anti Red Bull' sentiment is almost a reaction to the fact they have been so successful and have a relatively short history in the sport to date. Almost like a jealousy of the,

I cannot believe the amount of venom that seems to spew forth from some contributors towards RBR (and not Torro Rosso) on other forums I peruse occasionally for a look see.

The truth is Mr Mateschitz is really a dyed in wool enthusiast for motorsport.

His company spends way beyond the minimum required for a commercial return on their investment and motorsport is one of the adventure and/or extreme sports Red Bull have supported to create an image for their companies product.

Sports is important to Red Bull but so is the sporting aspect and if F1 stops being a 'sporting' theatre Red Bull, along with 50-80% of the other sponsors will walk away from it.
I had the wife of a friend I watched Malaysia with us make the comment "Where are all the sponsors? Most of the sidepod's have nothing on them and that's the best part of the car to advertise on...."

F1 is in more trouble than people realise, not because of the engine noise but a whole bunch of administrative issues that are affecting the very core of it's sporting character...
If it cannot run itself in a way that reflects the ideals that the world associates with true competitive sport it won't be just Red Bull who leave....
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 07:32 (Ref:3386947)   #22
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And take two teams with them. If I was the boss I would shut both teams down and not sell.
What and put a few thousand people out of a job?!
If Honda had done that back in 2008 a couple of my good friends would have been out of a job and I can't understand why anybody would call for that, even if its just to get a message to the FIA.

The best outcome should Red Bull decide to leave is to sell the team just like Jaguar did before them.
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 07:44 (Ref:3386952)   #23
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To find someone willing to put the sort of money into a team that red bull have will be almost impossible in today's financial climate, most teams are already having a hard time finding the money to stay in the sport let alone be competative
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 09:56 (Ref:3386986)   #24
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Well a 26 car grid with only 4 competative cars would be not viable for either fans or TV and F1 would soon die

Currently we only have two competitive cars on the grid!
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 10:06 (Ref:3386988)   #25
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it does seem harsh but in truth it applies to ALL F1 teams, not just the Red Bulls and manufacturers like Fiat, Renault, Honda, and Mercedes Benz.

I actually think a lot of the 'anti Red Bull' sentiment is almost a reaction to the fact they have been so successful and have a relatively short history in the sport to date. Almost like a jealousy of the,

I cannot believe the amount of venom that seems to spew forth from some contributors towards RBR (and not Torro Rosso) on other forums I peruse occasionally for a look see.

The truth is Mr Mateschitz is really a dyed in wool enthusiast for motorsport.

His company spends way beyond the minimum required for a commercial return on their investment and motorsport is one of the adventure and/or extreme sports Red Bull have supported to create an image for their companies product.

Sports is important to Red Bull but so is the sporting aspect and if F1 stops being a 'sporting' theatre Red Bull, along with 50-80% of the other sponsors will walk away from it.
I had the wife of a friend I watched Malaysia with us make the comment "Where are all the sponsors? Most of the sidepod's have nothing on them and that's the best part of the car to advertise on...."

F1 is in more trouble than people realise, not because of the engine noise but a whole bunch of administrative issues that are affecting the very core of it's sporting character...
If it cannot run itself in a way that reflects the ideals that the world associates with true competitive sport it won't be just Red Bull who leave....

Great post T!

"The truth is Mr Mateschitz is really a dyed in wool enthusiast for motorsport."

The whole lot of the idiots running the sport should listen to what Mr Mateschitz has to say, take a long hard look at themselves and do what is best for the sport in general and F1 in particular!
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