[LM24] Pescarolo Sport future plans...?!?!

[CTD]

Would be a bit fun if AMR jumps in with Pescarolo for the PR .

But yes, things start to indicate a Pescarolo AMR car.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by AGD

If they use an AMR-One as such, well, why? If they use a completely modified AMR-One, well, why? Why spend that much money to build a new car that will only be legal for 2012 and 2013? Well, maybe another year with grandfathering, but still, why? It might be true, but I don't get it.

Henri has to build a new car for this year anyway. The old grandfathered Pescarolo is illegal because of its big Judd V10 and the missing fin and holes.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Henri has to build a new car for this year anyway. The old grandfathered Pescarolo is illegal because of its big Judd V10 and the missing fin and holes.

No, but he could use the Oak car which still got a lot of his DNA in it.
But Henri has always been a excellent car builder, so looking forward to what he can create.

[gwyllion]

The Pescarolo team would also be likely to enter a Aston Martin AMR-One in the World Endurance Championship if the application is approved by the ACO.

translated from http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...ssian-sur-dome

[AGD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Henri has to build a new car for this year anyway.

Originally Posted by CTD

No, but he could use the Oak car which still got a lot of his DNA in it.

Right, what CTD said. If they build a new car at this stage (especially considering Pescarolo's rumored funding crunch), it might not be until 2014 until the car is mature. By that point, the car may not even be legal anymore! Perhaps it might have made more sense to get an Oreca 03, HPD, OAK, or something like that where they could build from a more established base.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by AGD

Right, what CTD said. If they build a new car at this stage (especially considering Pescarolo's rumored funding crunch), it might not be until 2014 until the car is mature. By that point, the car may not even be legal anymore! Perhaps it might have made more sense to get an Oreca 03, HPD, OAK, or something like that where they could build from a more established base.

True.
But the funding issues is pre-Peugeot exit, so we must not forget that a lot of the French sponsorships + Sony Playstation, could have gone his way.

But an Oak based car is what i always thought would be Pescarolo's weapon of choice this year. But let's see what happens

[AGD]

Originally Posted by CTD

But the funding issues is pre-Peugeot exit, so we must not forget that a lot of the French sponsorships + Sony Playstation, could have gone his way.

It's hard to say what will happen. There are some rumblings it seems that Pescarolo may have even less sponsorship than they had in 2011 and that maybe the ACO is helping with the bills. Those are just rumblings and they may not be correct. Plus, maybe they can attract more sponsors down the road. We'll see.

But an Oak based car is what i always thought would be Pescarolo's weapon of choice this year. But let's see what happens

You would think that would be the case especially after what Nicolet did for Henri last year, but I don't know what the situation is. Does Henri want the challenge of building up a new car again? Maybe he thinks the old Pescarolo has hit the limit? Is he too prideful to run a car that isn't really his anymore? Perhaps he does not think he can beat Nicolet's team with the same car so he does not want to run the same car? I don't know. It's an odd situation. One can say that Henri's old Pescarolo needs updating to run, but those updates will probably take a lot less work (especially if Nicolet's group pitches in with parts/support) than building up a competitive AMR-One especially at this late date!

[AGD]

I suppose another possibility to add to the list I made above is that maybe Pescarolo wants to get in on selling customer P2 chassis. In order to do that, he would need his own IP I guess. Also, an open-top car might have more life in that regard.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by AGD

I suppose another possibility to add to the list I made above is that maybe Pescarolo wants to get in on selling customer P2 chassis. In order to do that, he would need his own IP I guess. Also, an open-top car might have more life in that regard.

That would require huge balls from Henri, as he would screw Oak right over.
I hope that is not the case, as he owe Oak for the gift of his team.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by CTD

But yes, things start to indicate a Pescarolo AMR car.

So, we'll call that the AMR-Two then?

[Félix]

That new Pescarolo 03 is really the most interesting project in years to me. Henri said he's building a completely new car around "his friend David's" AMR tub. His team is probably the one that has played around the most with its cars with regular major changes since 2001. The AMR-One basis gives him the opportunity to:
-cut some drag with the roll-hoop
-get better front underbody aero with the raised footbox
-use suspension pieces designed for wider front tires
-use a brand new tub instead of older potentially tired ones

And of course there's a possibility that good ideas uncovered on the Dome could be passed over to the WEC car. I'm eager to see it evolve and I hope they'll make Sebring.

[Aysedasi]

It's an intriguing prospect for sure!

[kober]

Note, that in the official 2012 Le Mans 24 Hours press pack, the #16 car is mentioned as Pescarolo 03-H Judd, although it might be a typo (and there are some typos in the doc). Hybrid?

[GT6]

well i was supporting Henri anyway but now with the old aston and a dome i do so wish he springs a surprise on the big boys

[joeb]

So Dome have announced their testing plans prior to LeMans, but has Pescarolo made any announcements regarding when we will see the 03 first? (obviously Sebring 12hr, but I was referring to testing)

Also, I just realized that Pescarolo, Oreca, HPD, and Toyota all have a LMP car with "03" in its name somewhere!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by kober

Note, that in the official 2012 Le Mans 24 Hours press pack, the #16 car is mentioned as Pescarolo 03-H Judd, although it might be a typo (and there are some typos in the doc). Hybrid?

I'm afraid the only non Toyota/Audi hybrid on the list is Hope's Oreca (in reserves).

[Félix]

Originally Posted by joeb

So Dome have announced their testing plans prior to LeMans, but has Pescarolo made any announcements regarding when we will see the 03 first? (obviously Sebring 12hr, but I was referring to testing)

Also, I just realized that Pescarolo, Oreca, HPD, and Toyota all have a LMP car with "03" in its name somewhere!

French forums say that Sebring is part of their plans and the Claude Gallopin (Pesca technical genius) was very fond of the AMR-One at LM last year (their garages were not far apart).

[nobster]

I would like to see this car as soon as possible this is a very interesting car!

[Félix]

This article covers it all and more: http://www.sports.fr/cmc/auto-moto/2...lineshome-page

Pescarolo and Gallopin went to Prodrive as soon as the AMR-One project was cancelled. They were impressed with the tub and figured it was exactly what they would have built if they had gone for their own clean sheet design. Pescarolo describes the AMR-One as a "failure with an engine that never worked" . So they are only keeping the tub, crashbox, suspension and maybe the transmission. They started late because they didn't have the budget. The car should be ready just before Spa so Henri asked for a dispensation to run the older 01 with 5.5 V10 at Sebring. They will get the answer Monday. It will of course be a 100% new aero design. Prodrive gave them the plans and drawing as well as the rights to use the tub - they will replace the AMR chassis plate with a Pescarolo plate. They are setting up a design office in England and some mentioned - possibly as a joke - that JHC could work with them. The budget for a one-car WEC season is 2 million Euros and 1 extra million for the car (including hiring new workers). They have no yet completely found the money for the year.

One last interesting bit about the AMR tub: they also chose it because it was designed with future "hybridification" in mind - probably with a recess in the tub - and they expect to install it late this year or in 2013.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Félix

Pescarolo and Gallopin went to Prodrive as soon as the AMR-One project was cancelled. They were impressed with the tub and figured it was exactly what they would have built if they had gone for their own clean sheet design. Pescarolo describes the AMR-One as a "failure with an engine that never worked" . So they are only keeping the tub, crashbox, suspension and maybe the transmission. They started late because they didn't have the budget. The car should be ready just before Spa so Henri asked for a dispensation to run the older 01 with 5.5 V10 at Sebring. They will get the answer Monday. It will of course be a 100% new aero design. Prodrive gave them the plans and drawing as well as the rights to use the tub - they will replace the AMR chassis plate with a Pescarolo plate. They are setting up a design office in England and some mentioned - possibly as a joke - that JHC could work with them. The budget for a one-car WEC season is 2 million Euros and 1 extra million for the car (including hiring new workers). They have no yet completely found the money for the year.

One last interesting bit about the AMR tub: they also chose it because it was designed with future "hybridification" in mind - probably with a recess in the tub - and they expect to install it late this year or in 2013.

Interesting stuff. Haven't people in the know said that the AMR-One chassis was majorly flawed even without discussing the engine problems? Too much drag or something? A CFD nightmare? Ok, all/most of that may not matter if they are just using the tub and building a new car around that, but can they get things going well with so little development time? Also, if there are future plans for hybrids and stuff, what about the future of coupes? Can they use these cars beyond 2013 without any kind of grandfathering? Building a car for two seasons seems a bit overly ambitious for Pescarolo given their rumored financial situation (unless that has changed).

EDIT: I mean the future of open-top spyders, not coupes. Duh.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by AGD

Interesting stuff. Haven't people in the know said that the AMR-One chassis was majorly flawed even without discussing the engine problems? Too much drag or something? A CFD nightmare? Ok, all/most of that may not matter if they are just using the tub and building a new car around that, but can they get things going well with so little development time? Also, if there are future plans for hybrids and stuff, what about the future of coupes? Can they use these cars beyond 2013 without any kind of grandfathering? Building a car for two seasons seems a bit overly ambitious for Pescarolo given their rumored financial situation (unless that has changed).

The question was more about the aero being horrendous, everyone who "drove" the car mentioned that the mechanical grip of the chassis was not a problem. And Pescarolo are doing the only right thing that can be done with the AMR-One by junking the aero and the engine and keeping the tub.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

And Pescarolo are doing the only right thing that can be done with the AMR-One by junking the aero and the engine and keeping the tub.

Well, certainly there is no point in keeping the old AMR-One bodywork. That said, I am a little concerned about Pescarolo's ability to get competitive bodywork on that tub given the timeframe. Pescarolo has done a good job building up his cars in the past, but this might be the most ambitious project given the competition, time, and budget. Then again, maybe Pescarolo and crew have had some ideas brewing for some time now and they can apply those to the AMR-One tub pretty easily.

Did Prodrive construct those AMR-One tubs in-house or were they outsourced?

[jc_nl]

If i read the translated text correctly (always a bit of a gamble with an auto translator) they have done a complete aerodynamic study already. It seems to me they have been more active on this project than we might think. And skipping Sebring or racing their with the old car, will buy them time to fabricate the new pieces.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by jc_nl

If i read the translated text correctly (always a bit of a gamble with an auto translator) they have done a complete aerodynamic study already. It seems to me they have been more active on this project than we might think. And skipping Sebring or racing their with the old car, will buy them time to fabricate the new pieces.

The timeline is somewhat unclear, but they say they are late now and that they started later than they could have since it seems they agreed on a deal after Silverstone. They didn't have the budget, and they still don't have it all. And AGD, it's a 2-year project.

Now, about the chassis modification: first, remember the multiple Wirth LC75 variants. I think that quite similarly, Pescarolo could hang proven bits from its current 01 on the AMR chassis and only need to come up with the parts that interface with the chassis. Theoretically, the proven floor could be reused and adapted to work with the AMR tub, the 01 diffuser could be hung underneath the AMR nosebox, the current gearbox/rear suspension/rear wing assembly could be reused with minimal adaptive changes. Even some parts of the bodywork - like the wheel pods - could be reused with only some cutting and new carbon needed to interface with the new chassis. The Pescarolo 01 was not a bad car but I'm sure the temptation to go after more aerodynamic experimentation and potential gains will be strong. Let's just hope they don't go too far with an all-new car and fail.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Félix

And AGD, it's a 2-year project.

Yeah, but what I am wondering is if they'll have any time to race the thing by the time they get the kinks ironed out. The rumor is that open-top cars will be banned for 2014. Grandfathering might be allowed for that season, but that usually isn't an ideal situation.

Plus, as we've seen with those tubs, the idea of using races as test sessions is very, very risky. Ok, they don't have to worry about the engine and stuff like that. Pescarolo has shown a level of competence with building cars, I get that. Still, with the time and budget situation, I'm wondering if we're seeing an AMR-One Part Deux even if we forget the fact that AMR-One tubs are involved!