NZV8's 2011/12 - Page 12

on_to_it · 13 Dec 2011, 20:33 (Ref:2999355)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

If it is yet another Mitchell licorice strap chassis they'll be asking that question for many a day yet

That's an interesting perspective! There were some posts a while ago about torsional rigidity with this new chassis (in amongst other technical debate)but I forget where that matter ended. What happens if it's a lemon?

Pseudonym · 13 Dec 2011, 20:33 (Ref:2999356)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

is this the same mate that told you Inky was the owner of his own cars?

and why on earth would the transponder be removed? they were testing
(the new box etc) not trying to break lap records.

New car was running 4 spd Jerico, not the 6 speed.

Icarus_nz · 13 Dec 2011, 20:34 (Ref:2999357)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappelli

If outright pace was the major concern for spectators, then the Gt3's would be more popular than Supercars and TRS would be the countries most popular form of motorsport.... and that's far from the case.

You're right, speed is only an ingredient. For years it has been known that the answer to public appeal is STARS in cars.

Sucessful promotion requires that you enlist the support of, then promote those stars. Don't take their money and cheese them off.

It occurs to me that one of the hidden costs of racing at T1 is the depreiciation of your car. How many classes now have arrived in a blase of promotion and then been turfed out a couple of years later when the next spender arrives?

Lately I feel for the people who bought in BMW Mini. Sure they were a bit fragile and parts were costly but they required genuine ability to drive quickly. Along comes Suzuki and next thing the Mini's are worthless. V Expensive racing when you look at it like that.

Suzuki's teach NOTHING. The LSD takes away any great need for finesse. Great for the karting kids I suppose. They get a year or two in cars before they realise that sooner or later you need more ability that equipment.

Look back over the last 20 years and you'll see that pattern time and time again.
The only classes in this country with any stability (of sorts) are FFord and whatever big V8 class there is. And I suspect that stability comes from the commitment and determination of the owners/competitors- not from an autocratic administration body.

MSNZ have seen that NZV8 is their golden goose and havn't allowed that to happen up til now. The plan forward for them lacks realism and has the potental to burn even more people.

Pseudonym · 13 Dec 2011, 20:35 (Ref:2999358)

Quote:

Originally Posted by on_to_it

That's an interesting perspective! There were some posts a while ago about torsional rigidity with this new chassis (in amongst other technical debate)but I forget where that matter ended. What happens if it's a lemon?

What do you mean if?

on_to_it · 13 Dec 2011, 20:42 (Ref:2999363)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

In a spec class what does it matter?

Because it's laughable if the new purpose built car is slower than the old kit.

promax · 13 Dec 2011, 20:42 (Ref:2999364)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

In a spec class what does it matter?

in the eyes of a few on here.. the car is either going to be too fast and unfair to the older NZV8s or too slow cause it's not breaking all the track lap records in the country

promax · 13 Dec 2011, 20:47 (Ref:2999368)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonym

New car was running 4 spd Jerico, not the 6 speed.

you know this for a fact?

Pseudonym · 13 Dec 2011, 20:49 (Ref:2999371)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

you know this for a fact?

Yes.

Icarus_nz · 13 Dec 2011, 20:49 (Ref:2999372)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

In a spec class what does it matter?

Believe it or not, in a spec class it is even more critical.

If a chassis is flexing, with every cycle the stiffness reduces. Teams end up chasing the car because previous setups no longer work. Ever harder springs get thrown in and the dampers have no influence. The car is unbalanced most of the time and burns tyres. More testing is required (on mismatched tyres) and so the vicious cycle continues.
The easiest answer is to have a chassis which is as stiff as possible - i.e. a new one.

Therefore those with deep pockets buy their advantage.
Everyone else trashes their budget flogging around and getting frustrated.

On race day the rain comes, the softest cars romp home and get get false hope.

Have a torsional test and bend test been performed to establish baseline figures?

If I was buying one this would be an important question before shelling out

MacrosNZ · 13 Dec 2011, 22:29 (Ref:2999437)

It was me who asked about torsional stiffness on the MRX car, of which no value was stated in the answer.

I thought it would have been good to compare. I heard of a V8SC chassis having around 70kN per degree.

Sidewayz · 13 Dec 2011, 22:43 (Ref:2999444)

There seems to be alot of guessing about this new car. Unfortunately for NZV8 and the Mitchell's they don't have the luxury of testing this new chassis behind closed doors like the ST has, I know of the ST having a few faliures and problems in it early days, as does every brand new car. NZV8s have limited time to get this new car in place and working, hence its first real laps have been taking media for rides at the Ruapuna event and Barg's doing a total of a whole 8 laps on Monday, with a 4 speed and doing a faster time than any of the current cars did all the weekend.

promax · 13 Dec 2011, 23:07 (Ref:2999456)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonym

Yes.

ok.. now we're starting to get somewhere

promax · 13 Dec 2011, 23:12 (Ref:2999460)

so confirmed..

the MRX car was testing on Monday
Barg's was in the car
Barg's completed 8 laps
4 speed still in the car

unconfirmed..

the car tasted like licorice
black or red licorice?

stewies · 14 Dec 2011, 04:31 (Ref:2999525)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

If it is yet another Mitchell licorice strap chassis they'll be asking that question for many a day yet

do you have an example or is this just a stab at mrx? i heard bargs loved the new car

Point2 · 14 Dec 2011, 05:22 (Ref:2999530)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Point2

All class where offered the same deal.
It was a package put together by TMC and Volt tv.

3 races from one round filmed using 2 fixed camera locations.
Incar you had to pay extra for which I did at a additional $500 per vehicle.
1 mid event interview with a driver in the pits.
I also did my five minutes of fame on sky sport being interviewed by Clint Brown.
Race commentary was done by Clint Brown and a ex Ss2000 racer in the studio a week later.

Was aired 3 times on speed week

All up there was about 9 minutes of racing, 3 minutes of interviews,

We where delivered what was offered but the end result left a sour taste in the clubs mouth for tv coverage going forward.

I need to make a public apologie.
In the above post I named volt tv as the production house. This was incorrect, the production house was Legge Work who has no affiliation to volt tv productions.

Volt tv covered the series post the above fore mentioned.
To mike and the team at volt tv, please accept my apologies.
Your coverage was ten fold over others, and maybe I could use your editing skills prior to posting.

Regards Point2. Aka. Mike C

on_to_it · 14 Dec 2011, 06:30 (Ref:2999535)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

It was me who asked about torsional stiffness on the MRX car, of which no value was stated in the answer.

I thought it would have been good to compare. I heard of a V8SC chassis having around 70kN per degree.

That's sounds incredible. An XKR-S Jag is 28,400N per degree, but a Rolls Royce Phantom is 40,500!!!!

So, have they measured the MRX car?

Icarus_nz · 14 Dec 2011, 08:06 (Ref:2999565)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewies

do you have an example or is this just a stab at mrx? i heard bargs loved the new car

Hmmmm, Bonney Monaro and (old) Rae Camaro would be two particularly bad ones.
MRX workmanship is very nice with good detail but often the fundementals aren't there.

I'm not in the habit of taking a stab for no reason. I don't actually have an agenda.

promax · 14 Dec 2011, 08:23 (Ref:2999569)

why did JR give them his new toy to rebuild if their work wasn't up to standard?

surely he would've taken it to another workshop?

smokin'joe · 14 Dec 2011, 08:59 (Ref:2999584)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

You're right, speed is only an ingredient. For years it has been known that the answer to public appeal is STARS in cars.

Sucessful promotion requires that you enlist the support of, then promote those stars. Don't take their money and cheese them off.

It occurs to me that one of the hidden costs of racing at T1 is the depreiciation of your car. How many classes now have arrived in a blase of promotion and then been turfed out a couple of years later when the next spender arrives?

Lately I feel for the people who bought in BMW Mini. Sure they were a bit fragile and parts were costly but they required genuine ability to drive quickly. Along comes Suzuki and next thing the Mini's are worthless. V Expensive racing when you look at it like that.

Suzuki's teach NOTHING. The LSD takes away any great need for finesse. Great for the karting kids I suppose. They get a year or two in cars before they realise that sooner or later you need more ability that equipment.

Look back over the last 20 years and you'll see that pattern time and time again.
The only classes in this country with any stability (of sorts) are FFord and whatever big V8 class there is. And I suspect that stability comes from the commitment and determination of the owners/competitors- not from an autocratic administration body.

MSNZ have seen that NZV8 is their golden goose and havn't allowed that to happen up til now. The plan forward for them lacks realism and has the potental to burn even more people.

whilst i quietly havn't agreed with many of you posts, you hit the nail on the head here.
MSNZ done a similar deal to Rallying in the mid-90's. Tasman/Corrola Cup was hatched (no pun intended) using 100 series 3/5 door hatches. Cars were built, but before the series started, Suzuki cam along with the Baleno Cup cars, and the Toyotas became club cars over nite.

the NZV8 sereis wasn't a bad class 3 years ago, but has gone down hill ever since, possibly due to complacency of the promotors thinking that using the same staid recipe every would still draw decent crowds.

guess what.......... didn't work. even when i got free passes to the
T1 meetings, i found them a pi$$ poor way to spend a weekend and gave them to people who might have been interested.

Icarus_nz · 21 Dec 2011, 20:47 (Ref:3002896)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

why did JR give them his new toy to rebuild if their work wasn't up to standard?

surely he would've taken it to another workshop?

JR loves shiny.
And the chassis was build by a name US builder and fundementally sound. Pretty difficult to cock that up.

The mods to fit the Hollinger wouldn't significantly alter the stiffness.

It would be interesting to put some like Kayne Scott in that car to see if all that work has actually made the car faster than a 6l Trans-Am

Icarus_nz · 22 Dec 2011, 00:36 (Ref:3002978)

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

whilst i quietly havn't agreed with many of you posts...

You should comment more freely. Its always interesting to hear another perspective.
I'm firm in my views until I have good reason to change them :-)

I think a healthly forum is a powerful tool. For too long the mutterings have been just that.

I agree with your sentiment that even free passes to T1 are poor value.

If long lost relatives came to town and wanted to see good motorsport (any disipline) what would YOU take them to see...

smokin'joe · 22 Dec 2011, 01:01 (Ref:3002983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

If long lost relatives came to town and wanted to see good motorsport (any disipline) what would YOU take them to see...

Probably spend the day making the most of the free attractions around Timaru (lakes/ sea/ bushwalks etc) and then take them to Woodford Glen for the nite.
8+ hours (including the drive there and back), but get to see action on track all the time (except when the water cart comes out), and for a total cost including fuel that is less than MSNZ T1 events for a similar amount of spare time spent.

in this day and age, spare time dosn't come easily, nor does spare cash, so those in the entertainment business need to sharpen their games to get paying public in. 9 hours trackside on a T1 sunday to see maybe 12 races with huge gaps between, IS'NT entertainment.

the event needs to flow like a nite at the Speedway, and have plenty of variety of fields like a good clubmans /classic type meeting.

promax · 22 Dec 2011, 07:16 (Ref:3003029)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

JR loves shiny.
And the chassis was build by a name US builder and fundementally sound. Pretty difficult to cock that up.

The mods to fit the Hollinger wouldn't significantly alter the stiffness.

It would be interesting to put some like Kayne Scott in that car to see if all that work has actually made the car faster than a 6l Trans-Am

hmm your comment seems "personal"

no doubt other issues here

Jerico · 22 Dec 2011, 08:33 (Ref:3003042)

So what is your angle here Promax? Every Icarus nz post you have something pointed to say. A one liner like nearly all your posts.

I think Icarus nz is a little To sharp for you. When it comes to posts it's not the quantity it's the quality.

All this sniping is getting a little old.
But it maybe to hard to teach an old dog a new trick so you just keep doing what you know and what you are good at? Time will tell!

Biggy G · 22 Dec 2011, 09:22 (Ref:3003068)

Entry Lists are on the NZV8 website, 11 for Teretonga, where Malcolm Budd will join the fun.

On the same weekend, the first of the TRS rounds with 20 cars lined up to compete! Can't wait, anyone know if they get same day coverage?

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