[LM24] Le Mans Test Day - (22/23) 24th April 2011

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

It will be interesting dissecting the sector times, as well as the speedtraps, if the ACO disclose this information.

the sector data is up on the ACO site, however, unfortunately, we have no trap speeds.
audi's ideal lap would have been 3:27.2, but bourdais had his ideal lap for that 3rd spot. that once again shows peugeot have pushed quite a bit more than audi to get in the same speed area, i feel.

also, ideal lap times have audi on all first 3 spots.

[Aysedasi]

I'm with Acid09 - all the way........

What happened today doesn't prove anything more than you want to believe........

[CTD]

I wonder if we will see Peugeot complain about the R18!? (even with the 908 HDI FAB doing some smoke too)

[FordCosworthPanoz]

To predict results from a test day months before the race is just stupid, I honestly think both Peugeot and Audi were sandbagging, and if reliability kicks in come June ORECA, Pescarolo and Highcroft will be ready to fight for leftover scraps on the podium. Really angry that Kronos Lola Aston and the Zytek Hybrid wont be at Le Mans while this years AMR Tractor will be.
Looks like another amazing GT2/E battle this year, even though in terms of GT racing, Im more excited about the race two weeks after LM this year.


On Rolex: Rolex is the official sponsor of the Intercontinental Le Mans Cup, a deal that started last year. Thats why you will see Rolex branding during ILMC races, but not at the non ILMC LMS and ALMS races.

[Aysedasi]

So we should see it at Le Mans then.....?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by CTD

I wonder if we will see Peugeot complain about the R18!? (even with the 908 HDI FAB doing some smoke too)

If the smoke is as large as people are saying then if I were Peugeot I would, and you know the ACPeugeot will listen to them.

[Deleted]

I wonder if Marc VDS's involment with Kronos means anything - like a future prototype entry of their own. Granted that they have plenty of cars to be taken care of, but VDS already had some very early plans for LMP2 project last year. In any case, I really wish to see that Kronos on the grid. Wouldn't mind a couple of withdrawals from AMR, we need that V12... and Vanina

[Aysedasi]

Is it really gonna be that special...... And while it's good to have the daughter of a former multi-winner and legend on the grid, does Vanina bring much more than that? (Sorry, I'm in cantankerous mode...... )

[gustavobamba]

I remember a few months ago to say that the times of the Audi and Peugeot would be about 3m: 28s at best, I was wrong, the times of today clearly show that in qualifying and the race may get in 3m: 25s.
I must confess I did not expect such quick times today, although I think that the peugeot is hiding a little of their game.

On comparison between diesel and gasoline must say I was a little shocked at the time of the Rebellion Toyota, I know that are still testing the new aerodynamic and big tires but I thought to stay closer to diesel.

Even without the HPD Highcroft on track (hopefully that are hard on testing) I think the equivalence with diesel´s still needs tuning.

For me the surprise of the day was the Lotus Evora, not bad for first appearance, and mega disappointment was no doubt the Aston Martin. Seriously fear that the team does not appear in Le Mans, the image Prodrive is showing is worrying.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

the sector data is up on the ACO site, however, unfortunately, we have no trap speeds.

Where?!

I can only find the free practice sessions laptimes (http://www.lemans.org/fr/courses/24h...1/chronos.html )

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Back in the hotel...whew what a day...

Funny to see the usual Audi suspects already celebrating the results, hang on to the test day "win"..you might need it to cheer you up on Sunday afternoon come June

Peugeot hasn't shown their full hand and I think it's smart. Given that the ACO has said they don't want cars to go below 3:30 on a regular basis, it's clever to not show the car's full potential until Thursday the earliest.

Some random observations:

- The new 908 sounds incredibly sweet, raw & powerful, the old "Diesel cars don't have proper sound" talking point has to be dropped. The car can even be heard when it's surrounded by screamers like the 458...very nice! The R18 sounds "meh" though...

- .. it makes up for that with another "feature" though. The car is a nasty smoker, I don't think I´ve ever seen any Diesel put out this much black smoke. We all know that the ACO does not enforce the "no visible immisions" rule but Audi is taking it too far here. Watching from the Esses, it was always easy to see the R18 coming, just look out for the big black cloud under the Dunlop-bridge. No visible smoke on the 908, and that's certainly not my bias talking..

- What a disgrace the Aston Martin show in LMP1 was. As great as the DBR1 sounds, I don't think it did more than 20 laps. Does anybody know why? And the new LMP1 is just a failure so far... laughable reliability and it looked and sounded weak.. I can't believe they didn't bring spare engines, they should be desperate to get as much miles on the car as possible, it's not like they have many more chances to test the car in a competition environment before the 24h...

- It's visible that the LMP2 cars lack power. Great through the corners but there just isn't any punch on the straights... too bad, the Oreca 03s looked awesome... I wish they would give them a little more to work with.

- The test day draws a bigger crowd than 95% of all other sports car races. That dosen't say much but in all honesty, I was surprised with the spectator turnout. Long queue at the ticket booth in the morning, the Ford chicance & Dunlop grand stands were packed all day (and by packed I mean completely full)... looks like the locals dig the test day. Let's hope the ACO dosen't surrender to the ALMS whining and keeps the test day in the schedule for next year... by what I can tell it's a huge success all around.

- The whole "let's simulate a safety car period" thing felt a bit like an excercise in wasting everybody's time... at least the guys in the fire truck got a chance to lap the track lol... If it helps averting chaos during the race I´m all for it, I´ve never seen any series do such a simulation though.. robbed the teams of at least 30 minutes of track time.

- Has the ACO lost the Rolex sponsorship? All green former Rolex walls were blank and the logos were even removed from the start/finish clock.

- What was that prototype lapping with a passenger during the lunch break? Looked like a CN-car type of thing...

Acid-
I love how you criticize Audi fans on celebrating early when you and your Pug camp due it more than anyone else
I'm sure Peugeot was sandbagging,...and I'm sure Audi wasn't showing their full hand as well.

[batmobile]

Well, it was a hot day for the weather. But on the track I felt it was a very serious work session. They were not here for the show. As ACID 09 says, the Audis were very smoky but on the track they ran on a rail. They are so silencious than last year, compared with pugs that are noisier.
About AMR, I am very disappointed . It's incredible to see they were late for the scrutineering for the 007, and they could'nt present the 009 because they had'nt finished to assemble it. The 2 cars went both on the track but the 009 smoked as soon as it left the pit?? They had to change the engine. Are they ready? Very amazing. I have supported them and I loved their GT1 but today it was incredible .

[chernaudi]

And I'm pretty sure that the AMR-Ones were smoking more than the Audis and Pugs combined, considering that they were burning up the chewed up nikasil liners.

It does go back to something that some have noted, that the R18 does seem to be the more manuverable car, but that one of the 908's claimed the top speed prize for today. And I'd vote that speed is more important than agility at Le Mans with these cars.

Of course, I have no idea how close the V-maxes were between the two cars and how much difference there was between the Porsche Curves sector times. I do know that there's some info out there (ACO sector times), but not much in the way of speeds being posted aside from the Pug's 340km/h number.

[batmobile]

On the ACO site, they confirm it was a work session . Audi covered 3257 KM and Pugs 3407 and the highest speed for Montagny 340,5km/h.
http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...view_3504.html

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Of course, I have no idea how close the V-maxes were between the two cars and how much difference there was between the Porsche Curves sector times. I do know that there's some info out there (ACO sector times), but not much in the way of speeds being posted aside from the Pug's 340km/h number.

The top speeds of the first session are clearly mentioned in http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/...practice_1.pdf

Average of 5 highest top speeds:

• #7 Peugeot: 337.6 km/h
• #9 Peugeot: 336.8 km/h
• #8 Peugeot: 335.6 km/h
• #2 Audi: 335 km/h
• #3 Audi: 334.7 km/h
• #1 Audi: 334.3 km/h
• Pescarolo: 324.3 km/h
• Oreca Peugeot: 323 km/h

This suggests that the Peugeot engine has more power.

It is also bad news that the Audi was smoking a lot more than the Peugeot, because this means that Peugeot was not yet running their richest engine mapping.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

The best part is that often the battle between the fans of Audi and Peugeot is often more hard fought and entertaining than the battle on the circuit itself.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It does go back to something that some have noted, that the R18 does seem to be the more manuverable car, but that one of the 908's claimed the top speed prize for today. And I'd vote that speed is more important than agility at Le Mans with these cars.

Of course, I have no idea how close the V-maxes were between the two cars and how much difference there was between the Porsche Curves sector times. I do know that there's some info out there (ACO sector times), but not much in the way of speeds being posted aside from the Pug's 340km/h number.

Sector data is here in this PDF

1st practice
http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/...practice_1.pdf

2nd practice
http://orig.lemans.oceanet.eu/wpphpF...practice_2.pdf

Peugeot is losing most of its time to the Audis in the Porsche curves.

Fastest overall times through Porsche curves:

#2 - 16.058
#1 - 16.229
#3 - 16.263
#10 - 16.403 +.345 (#2 Audi)
#9 - 16.757 +.699 (#2 Audi)
#8 - 16.808 +.750 (#2 Audi)
#7 - 17.429 +1.371 (#2 Audi)

Interestingly enough, the fastest Peugeot through the Porsche curves is the old Oreca 908 HDi FAP. Maybe Audi is taking more advantage of the larger front tire solution then Peugeot at the moment at that section of track.

The fastest sector times between the Audis and Peugeots throughout the rest of the track are somewhat equal:

Sector 1:

#8 - 32.584
#2 - 32.593
#9 - 32.657
#1 - 32.666
#3 - 32.750
#10 - 33.068
#7 - 33.375

Sector 2 (Mulsanne):

#1 - 1:20.186
#8 - 1:20.226
#3 - 1:20.326
#9 - 1:20.457
#2 - 1:20.464
#7 - 1:21.039
#10 - 1:22.254

Audi owns sector 3 almost entirely due to the Porsche curves

Overall the Peugeots were considerably slower in their stints until a few last minute dashes at the end of the day. I think those last minutes laps showed their true pace, just a tick off of the Audis, at the moment.

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Is it really gonna be that special...... And while it's good to have the daughter of a former multi-winner and legend on the grid, does Vanina bring much more than that? (Sorry, I'm in cantankerous mode...... )

Well, for starters, she's better looking than any of the other drivers.....

[chernaudi]

Could that also be in part because the R18 looks like it's running more downforce than the 908s, which also might explain why they're running at near full power?

I do believe that the R18 might be a bit more draggy than the 908 in LM configuration. However, the opposite might be true unless the Pugs show up with modified bodywork at Spa as far as the sprint races.

The R18s were much faster at Sebring in testing than the 908s were during the race week. Pug sandbagging aside, that shows that the R18 very well might be carrying a ton of downforce even in LM configuration, while the Pugs seem to be a bit less draggy with their LM body work, but might be losing out in the Porsche Curves due to a lack of grip as of now.

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

For me the surprise of the day was the Lotus Evora, not bad for first appearance, and mega disappointment was no doubt the Aston Martin. Seriously fear that the team does not appear in Le Mans, the image Prodrive is showing is worrying.

Agreed. They're doing more harm to the corporate image than good.

Time to pull out, regroup, test in private and return, stronger, in 2012?

[Mike E]

Any video knocking about from today?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Could that also be in part because the R18 looks like it's running more downforce than the 908s, which also might explain why they're running at near full power?

Perhaps it has more to do with mechanical grip, instead of aero. With all that weight saving Audi has done, they can place their ballast very low in the center of the car. As a consequence the R18 has an excellent weight distribution, a low center of gravity, and a good polar moment.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Could that also be in part because the R18 looks like it's running more downforce than the 908s, which also might explain why they're running at near full power?

This could be the case, but there may not be a way of knowing for sure.

Maybe Audi has more confidence in their engine to push it harder allowing them to run more downforce while Peugeot may be repeating 2007 in some ways by not running full power but trying to make up for it by flattening out the aero.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I do believe that the R18 might be a bit more draggy than the 908 in LM configuration. However, the opposite might be true unless the Pugs show up with modified bodywork at Spa as far as the sprint races.

The R18s were much faster at Sebring in testing than the 908s were during the race week. Pug sandbagging aside, that shows that the R18 very well might be carrying a ton of downforce even in LM configuration, while the Pugs seem to be a bit less draggy with their LM body work, but might be losing out in the Porsche Curves due to a lack of grip as of now.

They have to be running more downforce or the R18 chassis works better with the wider tires and the compact V6 engine through the Porsche curves.

Its bothered me for a while that the Peugeot 908 nose really has been around since 2009 (or 2007 if you dont count the low drag Le Mans nose) and despite many updates you have to wonder how much you can get out of an old design.

Maybe the R18 nose and perhaps overall bodywork produces more downforce and almost as little drag as the 908? The R18 is after all a much more radical design while the 908 is more of an evolution of an old car.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

Well, for starters, she's better looking than any of the other drivers.....

There we go then - I do like an honest man!

[CTD]

We know for a certain that the new 908 has more mechanical grip than the 908 HDI-FAP, therefor there are only 2 reasons why the 908 HDI-FAP is faster thru the Porsche Curves than the 908.
1. The new 908 is running less downforce than the 908 HDI-FAP, therefor running slower thru high downforce corners.

2. The most probable reason.... Peugeot is sandbagging.

Please, give it a rest.

We have NO idea what so ever about the setups of the cars.
We do not know if Audi is running full speed, to make sure the R18 can handle being pushed at Le Mans.
We do not know if Peugeot was running setup work for the race itself, instead of qualifying.
We do not know if Peugeot was running development work on the LM kits.
We have no idea about tire setup, stints, on board full levels and so on.

We really do not know enough to jump to any real conclusions.