CanAm

Edmonton · 26 Mar 2003, 21:49 (Ref:549303)

What do you think was the greatest canam car?

krt917 · 26 Mar 2003, 22:00 (Ref:549314)

That's easy - Porsche 917/30 - so good they effectively banned it after one season. 4 years later they wheeled it out to smash the World Closed Circuit Speed Record at 220+mph.

Edmonton · 26 Mar 2003, 22:02 (Ref:549316)

Quote:

Originally posted by krt917
That's easy - Porsche 917/30 - so good they effectively banned it after one season. 4 years later they wheeled it out to smash the World Closed Circuit Speed Record at 220+mph.

It raced for 2 years. Now the chapperal 2J was banned after just one year.

krt917 · 26 Mar 2003, 22:22 (Ref:549333)

No, sorry it didn't. The 917/30 debuted in 1973 - the 917/10 had run in 1972 and wiped the floor with the opposition - and won 6 from 8 races in the hands of Mark Donohue. It was then withdrawn at the end of the season due to rule changes. The lack of opposition to the Shadows in 1974 meant that the organisers invited the Penske 917/30 back for one race. In the hands of Brian Redman it finished second and might have won had Donohue been a bit more helpful with tyre info.

The Chaparral 2J was pretty amazing, but did not achieve the same success.

Therefore, my choice is the Porsche 917/30!

DaveM · 26 Mar 2003, 23:15 (Ref:549417)

I have to disagree with you krt917 (although with that name I'm not surprised at your choice!). The 917/10 and /30 were tremendous cars, and the /30 had so much money and technical resource thrown at it (plus Mark Donohue developing it) that it killed off the ailing championship.

However my choice would have to be the high winged McLaren M8B of 1969 which cleaned up by winning all 11 races (including no less than eight 1-2 finishes), and both McLaren and Hulme finished with twice as many points as the third placed driver. Don't forget that in those days McLaren wasn't a cash rich team, but got the results by meticulous testing, careful preparation and two good professional drivers.

Incidentally, most of the 917/10 race wins in 72 were from George Follmer who was drafted in following Donohue's serious accident and who took the championship - thanks to Donohue's development work, granted. Also, they weren't withdrawn due to rule changes - there were plenty of 917/10's racing in 73, including Follmer in his 72 car, but under new ownership.

krt917 · 27 Mar 2003, 18:38 (Ref:550286)

Sorry about that Dave - I was referring to the end of 1973 when the 917/30 was withdrawn. You're right about the 917/10s being around in '73 - they tended to be 'best of the rest' behind MD.

The 1969 M8B is one of my 'next best'. Preperation was awesome, as was the 100% record. I'm also a fan of Chaparrals (in Sportscars or Can-Am) and I think the '74 Shadow was pretty good too. Had to go for the Porsche though, partly because it finally ended McLaren's domination, partly because of the sophisitication (not simply making V8s bigger!), and partly because of the ridiculous power. Oh, and the livery wasn't bad either....

DaveM · 27 Mar 2003, 20:29 (Ref:550386)

I'm also a big fan of the Chaparrals, Jim Hall was a true innovator with his pioneering work with driver-activated high wings, use of plastics in construction, and of course the 2J which introduced ground effects by adding a fence of Lexan skirts around the car and used a snowmobile engine to create a vacuum, and two big fans at the back to blow the dirt into the faces of the opposition - the sucker car. I believe it was Hulme who said on seeing it for the first time: "It looks like the box it came in!"

gfm · 27 Mar 2003, 20:38 (Ref:550395)

So were you guys at Brands when it won? Didn't it go to the Nurburgring and win too? That must have been something. The Chaparrals.

allenbrown · 27 Mar 2003, 21:45 (Ref:550470)

Best Can-Am car? The Frissbee GR3. Won the title three times.

Allen

Andrew Kitson · 27 Mar 2003, 21:52 (Ref:550481)

According to today's Autosport the Chaparrels are coming back to the Festival of speed this year - hopefully the sucker too.
Last time they were there was '97 I think.

mickj · 28 Mar 2003, 05:12 (Ref:550703)

Chaparrals and Stan Burnetts Burnett Mk3 and anyone else who ran the Can-Am's. Some interesting cars were built at the time, not all front runners but they were out there trying.
The single seater based series deserves a mention to. 1 weird car had the driver in a pontoon on 1 side of the car and the motor on the other side. www.racingsportscars.com has some great photos.

Allan Brown who were the driver/s of the Frissbee's.

krt917 · 28 Mar 2003, 09:33 (Ref:550829)

Am, unfortunately, too young to have been there gfm

The 2D won at the Nurburgring in 1966 and the 2F (with fantastic high wing - BEFORE Mr Chapman came up with them for the 49s) won at Brands in '67 with Mike Spence and Phill Hill up. Couldn't have been a bad drive though - Chris Amon and Jackie Stewart were second in a P4!!

Sorry, seem to have lost the Can-Am thread. Any other suggestion?

Armco Bender · 28 Mar 2003, 11:16 (Ref:550922)

McLaren and Hulme in the orange M8s are what you think of here as the best CanAm cars.

The '77 Schkee was a nice looker though.

DaveM · 29 Mar 2003, 23:48 (Ref:552503)

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
According to today's Autosport the Chaparrels are coming back to the Festival of speed this year - hopefully the sucker too.
Last time they were there was '97 I think.

Here is the sucker 2J at Goodwood in 1997. Pretty huh? Certainly pretty effective, so much so that the other teams lost no time in getting it banned. Shame that a series which started out as an 'anything goes' formula then started banning innovation.

DaveM · 29 Mar 2003, 23:51 (Ref:552507)

A closer look at its bra. Note also the plastic skirts, long before they were 'invented' by F1.

DaveM · 29 Mar 2003, 23:59 (Ref:552514)

And here's the genius behind the Chaparrals, Jim Hall. He spent most of his time in the paddock chatting to anyone and everyone, signing autographs, posing for photos - a really Good Bloke.

When I said (in a pleasingly grovelling way I felt) how unbelievable it was that Chaparral only won one Can-Am race, he said in his Texas drawl "Well you know, Hap (Sharp) always said that innovation never won a motor race". Not totally accurate, but not far away where Chaparrals and Can-Am was concerned.

mickj · 30 Mar 2003, 04:25 (Ref:552662)

DaveM
You are correct in saying that Jim Hall is a really Good Bloke. At Road America in 2001 he did exactly as you say signing autographs and talking to everyone.
In 1962 I wrote to him and asked where I could buy photos of the Chaparral 2. I recieved 3 photos which I still have. Have been a fan since.

**John Turner** · 30 Mar 2003, 20:21 (Ref:553104)

O.K, so the M8B was the greatest, the 917/30 was the best and the Chaparral was the most interesting! On the other hand ......

mickj · 31 Mar 2003, 03:42 (Ref:553372)

John
On the other hand.... ????

paulzinho · 31 Mar 2003, 16:20 (Ref:553943)

There's 5 fingers?

mickj · 1 Apr 2003, 03:47 (Ref:554477)

Nice 1 Paul.

krt917 · 2 Apr 2003, 09:34 (Ref:555663)

Actually, 4 fingers.

And a thumb.

paulzinho · 2 Apr 2003, 15:37 (Ref:556077)

D'oh!

mickj · 3 Apr 2003, 03:26 (Ref:556748)

krt917 did you go to university? Very clever.

allenbrown · 3 Apr 2003, 16:47 (Ref:557436)

Quote:

Originally posted by mickj
Allan Brown who were the driver/s of the Frissbee's.

Lots of people drove Frissbees but the title winners were Al Unser Jr in 1981, Jacques Villeneuve Sr in 1982 and Rick Miaskiewicz in 1985. The 1986 title winner, Horst Kroll, used a Frissbee-bodied Lola.

Al Unser Sr, Paul Tracy and Danny Sullivan also all won Can-Am races in Frissbees.

Allen

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