BTCC 2024 News & Rumours - Page 3

Mike Harte · 14 Aug 2023, 10:23 (Ref:4172700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Anymore on WSR running a 2 series Gran Coupe? Listening to Dick Bennetts on a podcast and he was speaking about next year's programme. They desperately need it.

I think that they might do far better than they are if they stopped colliding with each other, and if Hill calmed down a bit. They might not achieve outright wins, but they would, more than likely, rack up a lot more points.

S griffin · 14 Aug 2023, 10:29 (Ref:4172703)

I don’t think Hill is fully developed yet. He’s capable of winning plenty of races, but needs to be a bit calmer in the pack and then he will develop the consistency that can win titles

Sodemo · 14 Aug 2023, 14:05 (Ref:4172738)

What do they think the 2-series would give them over the 3-series?

crmalcolm · 14 Aug 2023, 14:11 (Ref:4172744)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What do they think the 2-series would give them over the 3-series?

A chance to homologate an updated design, with more scope for development.

Sodemo · 14 Aug 2023, 14:34 (Ref:4172748)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

A chance to homologate an updated design, with more scope for development.

Understood, but what would be the point? They will just get slapped down with the same (or similar) performance degrading measures and be right back to where they are now.

crmalcolm · 14 Aug 2023, 14:45 (Ref:4172751)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Understood, but what would be the point? They will just get slapped down with the same (or similar) performance degrading measures and be right back to where they are now.

Isn't the F44 2 Series Gran Coupé a transverse FWD layout - so they would not be subjected to the RWD compensatory adjustments?

antnee · 14 Aug 2023, 14:51 (Ref:4172753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Isn't the F44 2 Series Gran Coupé a transverse FWD layout - so they would not be subjected to the RWD compensatory adjustments?

Correct. It would remove all of the RWD 'restrictions'.

Probably worth noting, that the 3 series road car was facelifted recently so WSR could use it as an opportunity to 'refresh' the race car.

Sodemo · 14 Aug 2023, 15:30 (Ref:4172760)

FWD BMW?! Thats all kinds of wrong...

Mike Harte · 14 Aug 2023, 15:57 (Ref:4172767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

FWD BMW?! Thats all kinds of wrong...

I would imagine that many people said exactly the same thing when, for example, Ford (insert any other car manufacturer that you like) went FWD; I mean it was only BMC who did them at the time. I just hope that that my memory is correct when I say that.

Craner Curves · 14 Aug 2023, 18:08 (Ref:4172786)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

FWD BMW?! Thats all kinds of wrong...

Is it any worse than a diesel BMW convertible?

coffinpilot · 14 Aug 2023, 18:08 (Ref:4172787)

BMW 2 Series not happening.
One of the BTCC journalists was at Croft for the Super Tourers before heading to Knockhill.
I asked a load of questions that gave back a "I know the answer, but can't share it," type of reply, but on the FWD 2Series he said he'd directly asked WSR about it and they said no, and he'd asked a couple of other people around the paddock in the no - they all said it had been shelved.

Couldn't or wouldn't answer that they weren't going ahead with the 2 series because Dick Bennetts is trying to sell up before retiring back to NZ.

He did believe that the BTCC is just letting 'natural wastage' bet rid of RWD. And with Motorbase halting the RWD Audi project over the winter, and Sutton being dominant in a FWD, nobody is really going to throw loads of cash at a RWD now.

porsche962fan · 14 Aug 2023, 20:40 (Ref:4172796)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Is it any worse than a diesel BMW convertible?

or an electric Porsche

porsche962fan · 14 Aug 2023, 20:47 (Ref:4172798)

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Couldn't or wouldn't answer that they weren't going ahead with the 2 series because Dick Bennetts is trying to sell up before retiring back to NZ.

He did believe that the BTCC is just letting 'natural wastage' bet rid of RWD. And with Motorbase halting the RWD Audi project over the winter, and Sutton being dominant in a FWD, nobody is really going to throw loads of cash at a RWD now.

Dick is the last dinosaur boss from the awesome Super tourers era left , everyone else is either retired or passed away

billy bleach · 15 Aug 2023, 05:26 (Ref:4172831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

BMW 2 Series not happening.
One of the BTCC journalists was at Croft for the Super Tourers before heading to Knockhill.
I asked a load of questions that gave back a "I know the answer, but can't share it," type of reply, but on the FWD 2Series he said he'd directly asked WSR about it and they said no, and he'd asked a couple of other people around the paddock in the no - they all said it had been shelved.

Couldn't or wouldn't answer that they weren't going ahead with the 2 series because Dick Bennetts is trying to sell up before retiring back to NZ.

He did believe that the BTCC is just letting 'natural wastage' bet rid of RWD. And with Motorbase halting the RWD Audi project over the winter, and Sutton being dominant in a FWD, nobody is really going to throw loads of cash at a RWD now.

Audi didn’t fit into the regulations ……

Sodemo · 15 Aug 2023, 14:37 (Ref:4172880)

What Audi was it?

crmalcolm · 15 Aug 2023, 14:47 (Ref:4172882)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What Audi was it?

By all accounts, S5 was considered first but the engine is too large.
Then A5 was considered but the engine is mounted in the wrong orientation.

auroan · 15 Aug 2023, 23:21 (Ref:4172926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

By all accounts, S5 was considered first but the engine is too large.
Then A5 was considered but the engine is mounted in the wrong orientation.

Not to mention the s5 engine is a diesel and a 3ltr v6. It was the 2.0tfsi a5 sportback that was actually being looked at. Basically rwd passat cc

crmalcolm · 16 Aug 2023, 04:01 (Ref:4172949)

Quote:

Originally Posted by auroan

Not to mention the s5 engine is a diesel and a 3ltr v6. It was the 2.0tfsi a5 sportback that was actually being looked at. Basically rwd passat cc

Thanks - I wasn't sure exactly which model of A5 was being looked at. I just know that Pete said this:

"The S5 couldn’t come in because it’s a 3.0-litre, and we were fine with that – we agree with the teams. But to let a 2.0-litre A5 in was no different to any other car in my opinion. We just wanted to change the rules because we feel it would be for everyone’s benefit."

S griffin · 16 Aug 2023, 09:11 (Ref:4172963)

It's a shame they didn't go with the Audi, would have been nice to have a bit of a change. Although their decision to stick with the Ford has been justified, so there's no point going on about it

peebee2 · 16 Aug 2023, 09:23 (Ref:4172972)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

It's a shame they didn't go with the Audi, would have been nice to have a bit of a change. Although their decision to stick with the Ford has been justified, so there's no point going on about it

The didn't decide to stick with the Ford as such. They decided they wanted to switch to Audi, but were denied a rule break by TOCA, correctly in my opinion.

S griffin · 16 Aug 2023, 10:08 (Ref:4172973)

Well that’s what is known as a blessing in disguise. The Ford is still quick enough. Still would be nice to see Audis back in the championship though

auroan · 16 Aug 2023, 19:50 (Ref:4173035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

The didn't decide to stick with the Ford as such. They decided they wanted to switch to Audi, but were denied a rule break by TOCA, correctly in my opinion.

Yep, I think the Levorg was the last straw with the longitudinal engine can be rwd if the car is 4wd loop hole. And that particular loop hole got closed.

But I bet a manufacturer backed entry might re-open it

coffinpilot · 17 Aug 2023, 15:57 (Ref:4173109)

Quote:

Originally Posted by auroan

Yep, I think the Levorg was the last straw with the longitudinal engine can be rwd if the car is 4wd loop hole. And that particular loop hole got closed.

But I bet a manufacturer backed entry might re-open it

Really can't see any manufacturer properly backing the BTCC any time soon. Marketing wise it's a bit dirty and against their message is it not?

Even the hybrid thing. Since they discovered that the unit tears itself apart if used for the electric lap to the grid (and it's cost that's preventing a fix) it just doesn't appeal.

I can see the point of letting RWD fall away then banning it in case somebody developed an advantage with a new one. I'm not that technical, but I imagine balancing a grid full of FWD machines would be easier (although TCR can't seem to manage it that well) because, like it or not, BTCC is a BoP type of championship.

I've a feeling that the costs are going to bite the championship really hard in a couple of seasons - even if Nick Halstead opening up videos for marketing means that get more money from sponsors (which it won't....)

S griffin · 17 Aug 2023, 17:11 (Ref:4173121)

I think as long as BMW are still in it, it won’t go FWD. However it does seem like the way the rules have gone have dissuaded anyone else entering a RWD car, which is a pity. The series needs to have cars with different strengths and weaknesses, otherwise racing would get a bit too stagnant

Sodemo · 17 Aug 2023, 17:18 (Ref:4173122)

A mix of touring car drivetrains have been in motorsport since almost day dot, to say only now that it “doesn’t work” in some way would be foolhardy.

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