[Driver] Who is now the best driver in F1?

[hannabyjj]

Originally Posted by garcon

I never take the comments of a current competitor at face value. They always have an agenda that dictates what they say. (And if they don't, they should! )

Fair enough btw just as a side note I also live in cheshire

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I understand your rationale, peckstar, but I feel it's too simplistic, as you know as well as we all do that the drivers' championship depends on many factors including car failures and car performance. It's true that it's an official gauge, but to my mind it doesn't make sense to say Vettel is the best but then think that had the car broken down on the last lap of every one of his five 2012 wins, he would have won nothing this year and certainly not the championship and would therefore be automatically rendered far from the best driver.

yes and if Hamiltons car had have broken down on the last lap of every race he won, then he would have won nothing this year. (seriously?)

It hardly Seb's fault that he looks after the car better.

This is how i know Seb is better than Hamilton. Red Bull would rather have Webber than Hamilton

[Born Racer]

Yes, Hamilton caused all those failures.

God, he truly is the best driver if he has that ability.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by peckstar

yes and if Hamiltons car had have broken down on the last lap of every race he won, then he would have won nothing this year. (seriously?)

It hardly Seb's fault that he looks after the car better.

This is how i know Seb is better than Hamilton. Red Bull would rather have Webber than Hamilton

God please could you please give me the strength needed to work here ?

[Born Racer]

Oh and going by your logic Michael Schumacher is just over twice as good as Sebastian Vettel.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Oh and going by your logic Michael Schumacher is just over twice as good as Sebastian Vettel.

Fail to see how that is my logic. Michael Schumacher doesnt race any more.

Hasn't won the last 3 championships either.

but he was once (just a long time ago)

[Born Racer]

He's won 7 championships. The stats speak for themselves you said. Vettel's won just 3. So Seb is officially less than half as good.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

He's won 7 championships. The stats speak for themselves you said. Vettel's won just 3. So Seb is officially less than half as good.

Michael no longer races he therefore cannot be the best driver in F1. Its given logic.

Dont try and play word games.

Stick to the facts Seb has beaten Hamilton for the last 4 years. that's a consistant beating.

and i'm tipping thats about to be 5

[hannabyjj]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

He's won 7 championships. The stats speak for themselves you said. Vettel's won just 3. So Seb is officially less than half as good.

I hope you aren't being serious because that's some of the worst logic I have seen

[Born Racer]

I'm clearly not being serious if you read my previous comments to peckstar, who seems to think that if Narain Karthikeyan was in a Red Bull and won, while Vettel languished in an HRT, it would be the former who'd be the better driver.

Ah, some of the contents of this thread - I despair.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by hannabyjj

Yes I do :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEzqCcF2mps

He doesn't say what you said he said. He just compares Vettel and Hamilton.

[Marbot]

Hamilton was fortunate in that he had lots of F1 testing prior to his F1 debut. If some of the latest newcomers to the sport aren't making as much impact on the sport, then you could definitely point to that as being a factor.

Alonso, though it pains me to say so, is by far and away the most complete driver in F1 at the moment. That Ferrari was never, at any time, the best car on the grid. Amazing performance.

So my answer to the question is a resounding - NO. Not only that, but Vettel's attention to detail and ability to adapt his driving style to whatever Adrian Newey says is necessary in order to make the most of any improvements, is also simply amazing, and is an area in which his team mate clearly struggles. I'm not sure that Hamilton can come close to either one in terms of really making the difference when and where it matters.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Hamilton was fortunate in that he had lots of F1 testing prior to his F1 debut. If some of the latest newcomers to the sport aren't making as much impact on the sport, then you could definitely point to that as being a factor.

Alonso, though it pains me to say so, is by far and away the most complete driver in F1 at the moment. That Ferrari was never, at any time, the best car on the grid. Amazing performance.

So my answer to the question is a resounding - NO. Not only that, but Vettel's attention to detail and ability to adapt his driving style to whatever Adrian Newey says is necessary in order to make the most of any improvements, is also simply amazing, and is an area in which his team mate clearly struggles. I'm not sure that Hamilton can come close to either one in terms of really making the difference when and where it matters.

Nicely done, Marbot! I tend to agree with your points and also those of Garcon much further upstream. Another factor that I would add is that when analyzing the strengths/weaknesses of a particular driver our own personal bias regarding driving styles, attitude, racecraft, etc all play into it. While I have of course enjoyed seeing drivers like Mansell, A Senna, Prost, G Hill, Stewart, Andretti (and on and on!) over the years I have always liked best the drivers who are "thinkers" such as Prost, Michael, Lauda, or G Hill and some fair few others. Every once in a while I toss all that to the wind and really enjoy someone like Mansell.

That's the beauty of it for me: so many different facets to the sport and the importance of each facet can change with the era. It is never dull!

[jedrinck]

Originally Posted by hannabyjj

Then why does Alonso say Hamilton is better, why do journalists say Alonso and hamilton are better( most of the time) why do team bosses think alonso is the best.

1. Alonso said so because Vettel was his rival and he hoped to hurt Vettel's confidence by making that statement. Just mind games. It also corresponds with Alonso's self praise.

2. British journalists say Hamilton is the best, Spanish journalists say Alonso and German journalists say it's Vettel.

3. He's an obvious choice and he keeps saying so himself, so why contradict him?

[hannabyjj]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

He doesn't say what you said he said. He just compares Vettel and Hamilton.

he says hamilton is better

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Hamilton was fortunate in that he had lots of F1 testing prior to his F1 debut. If some of the latest newcomers to the sport aren't making as much impact on the sport, then you could definitely point to that as being a factor.

Alonso, though it pains me to say so, is by far and away the most complete driver in F1 at the moment. That Ferrari was never, at any time, the best car on the grid. Amazing performance.

So my answer to the question is a resounding - NO. Not only that, but Vettel's attention to detail and ability to adapt his driving style to whatever Adrian Newey says is necessary in order to make the most of any improvements, is also simply amazing, and is an area in which his team mate clearly struggles. I'm not sure that Hamilton can come close to either one in terms of really making the difference when and where it matters.

Ferrari admits that the wet races favored them, that's why Alonso held the title lead in the first part of the season. Because he had those wet weather wins. When you see a Sauber closing in on him in one of those races, you get to understand that it's a matter of chance and conditions than coupled with skill. Not all Alonso outperforming his car and such. Massa outperformed Alonso in the latter part of the season, but team orders pushed Alonso ahead. So is Massa a better driver than Alonso? This thread is nothing but an opinion piece, much like most of the 'news' out there about the drivers.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by TF110

This thread is nothing but an opinion piece, much like most of the 'news' out there about the drivers.

Yep, there are thousands of them here at Tenths.......

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by garcon

Specifically on Australia, there are as many patriotic Aussie Webber fans as there are Spanish Alonso fans and British Hamilton fans. That doesn't make any of them wrong, just acknowledges that national bias exists.

Are there as many patriotic Aussie Webber fans? The difference is, the biased, patriotic from other countries fans really think that their driver is the best in F1. No one could genuinely think that Webber is the best driver, even up until the end of 2012 . Well, maybe excluding his staunch, deluded fans.

Any hardened support for Webber from Australians, has more to do with the lack of success for so long, we'll embrace any potato. There is an undercurrent down here, that Webber is just plain ****.

[IceMan_PJN]

Originally Posted by hannabyjj

This season lewis has really shown his class and I feel he was the fastest and maybe bar alonso the most consistent. He carried on fighting even though his team badly let him down.

I'm a Hamilton fan but I don't think it easy to call him "the best". He is definitely one of the best of the current drivers. Unfortunately, he has had some numbskull moments. Even disregarding 2011, when his head clearly wasn't in the game, in previous years he still had moments when I wanted to strangle him, like when he rear-ended Kimi in pit lane with a red light at the end clearly indicating they weren't allowed to leave yet.

Lewis's biggest weakness is bad luck, unfortunately. His teammate over the past few seasons shown what good luck can get you. Case in point - Brasil 2012. Button was praised for his brilliant tactic of staying out on slicks instead of pitting for intermediate tires. It was just by dumb luck that it worked out for him, as it could have just as well been a huge blunder and made him look like an idiot. Had it instead been Lewis making the gamble, the rain would get worse and destroy his race.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by IceMan_PJN

Had it instead been Lewis making the gamble, the rain would get worse and destroy his race.

It was unfortunate that the safety car came out when it did. You can argue all day long about who did and did not benefit from that. In F1 you make your own luck, and it has played its part in probably every championship I can think of. Engines that blow up, gearboxes that break, pit stops that don't go very well, are all forgotten when it comes to who won what championship and when.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I'm clearly not being serious if you read my previous comments to peckstar, who seems to think that if Narain Karthikeyan was in a Red Bull and won, while Vettel languished in an HRT, it would be the former who'd be the better driver.

Ah, some of the contents of this thread - I despair.

Are you being serious with that comment, how would we know, sounds like you are just baiting people to get a reaction

Especially because there is no evidence that your precious little Hamilton is the best driver out there

Possibly Lewis scraps into P4, I prefer Button for P4 though. Button is less full of himself and the media dont kiss his butt as much. Plus Button has outscored Hamilton in the period where they have shared the same car.

[TF110]

Who cares about the guys personality, let him flaunt if he wants! I watch him on track, not his tweets or his facebook or whatever the tabloids want to show you. That goes for any driver, not just Hamilton.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by hannabyjj

he says hamilton is better

Than Vettel.

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

While I have of course enjoyed seeing drivers like Mansell, A Senna, Prost, G Hill, Stewart, Andretti (and on and on!) over the years I have always liked best the drivers who are "thinkers" such as Prost, Michael, Lauda, or G Hill and some fair few others. Every once in a while I toss all that to the wind and really enjoy someone like Mansell.

That's the beauty of it for me: so many different facets to the sport and the importance of each facet can change with the era. It is never dull!

There is a subjective element to it, because what is best? If we're going to answer it by drivers' championships, then there is no debate. But we all know it's not as simple as that, particularly in Formula 1 where the car plays a massive part.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning on that note that Hamilton and Alonso are two drivers who can take a mediocre or poorly-handling car by the scruff of its neck and extract a lot from it consistently (Alonso did refer to that in the above-posted video). That doesn't get us closer to answering the question though. Although we may wonder if Vettel can do that (we saw Webber consistently quicker than Vettel in early 2012 before Red Bull got a handle on things).

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Are you being serious with that comment, how would we know, sounds like you are just baiting people to get a reaction

No, I was only serious isofar as questioning the absurdity of your logic that the driver who wins the championship is automatically the best.

Many people in the F1 world with far more inside knowledge than you or I to form a view on this have called Alonso the best driver of 2012. I think he may be, or I think Hamilton may be (perhaps Vettel may even be). But you are saying Vettel is the best because he won the championship. If that's your criterion, fair enough. I dispute it but I defend your right to take that approach.

In future, refrain from accusations of baiting or please contact a moderator by private message (including the moderator whom you are accusing of baiting) with your concerns. As for myself, moderators are selected on various criteria, including not being the kind of person to bait others on the forum.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

No, I was only serious isofar as questioning the absurdity of your logic that the driver who wins the championship is automatically the best.

Many people in the F1 world with far more inside knowledge than you or I to form a view on this have called Alonso the best driver of 2012. I think he may be, or I think Hamilton may be (perhaps Vettel may even be). But you are saying Vettel is the best because he won the championship. If that's your criterion, fair enough. I dispute it but I defend your right to take that approach.

In future, refrain from accusations of baiting or please contact a moderator by private message (including the moderator whom you are accusing of baiting) with your concerns. As for myself, moderators are selected on various criteria, including not being the kind of person to bait others on the forum.

not the championship, 3 championships in a row. If Alonso had won last year. i may have still given Seb the No 1 spot.

those people in the world who have supposidly more inside knowledge (apparantley that means something, it may just mean they are not independant) dont rate Hamilton as Number 1 either

Like i said I put Lewis no 5. If Kimi can come back after years in the wilderness and show lewis a clean pair of heels, then clearly Kimi has to rate better

and now because apparantly its ok to tick people off in italics at the bottom of the page. If you feel the need to tick someone off for accusing you off baiting please contact a moderator by private message, would have been much easier if you just said sorry for baiting you