Audi LMP1 Discussion

[CTD]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

So, R-18, Cabriolet or Coupe??

A Cabriolet would be cool!, but i don't think so, as i do not see the Audi drivers but on the roof before Mulsanne .

But a Spyder, yes. If AMR dare make a spyder next year, Audi certainly dare too.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by CTD

But a Spyder, yes. If AMR dare make a spyder next year, Audi certainly dare too.

How do you suppose they will get a saddle attached?? Without getting bitten?





L.P.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

How do you suppose they will get a saddle attached?? Without getting bitten?
L.P.

You don't know Dr. Ullrich then

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Huh? What would HPD do? They do not build chassis in-house.




L.P.

Ok whats your point.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Huh? What would HPD do? They do not build chassis in-house.

ARX-02?

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Horse manure, when it comes to PHR. AMR will only run 2 werks cars maximum! The other cars running (if any) will be customer cars. Duncan already owns chassis (pl) that are legal for next year and that can be upgraded. HPDs engine is a proven unit which would offer the most assurance for winning and will still be offered up.



L.P.

O.K.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Ok whats your point.

That HPD doesn't make chassis themselves.

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

ARX-02?

Nope, that was Wirth Research

[MihokS5]

Well I asked Ulrich Baretzky after the PLM race if he could confrim a coupe or open cockpit, and he smiled and said "we will wait and see"
I was hoping to get some kind of info from him but he wouldn't tell much

[gwyllion]

You should have asked about the engine and KERS, because that is his job

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

You should have asked about the engine and KERS, because that is his job

Oh I did ask him about that first and of course he couldn't give me any details

[chernaudi]

Speculation on the Audi R18 and it's testing time table: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ns-Rounds-Only

And speculation on the Porsche 911 GT3 Hybrid's KERS system and what it may mean for the Audi R18: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ortscar-Racing

[TF110]

I dont think the ACO will go for the AWD system, but i could see Audi using the flywheel system for the R18 if it's a better option than 'KERS' or whatever other hybrid option there is. I'd say they go with the flywheel, but one concern i heard was the weight of the system.

[6157]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Speculation on the Audi R18 and it's testing time table: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ns-Rounds-Only

This article says the one tire changer rule negates the open cockpit advantage during driver changes? I thought Audi was leaning toward open cock pit because of the drag factor as well as the removal of the air conditioning rule and the weight break that came with it?

Basically the same reasons Aston Martin decided on a open cockpit.

I like Ullrich's idea of works teams instead of a full factory effort. This should help ensure each LM series gets a top team and car but apparently this idea was the undoing of bringing Audi back to the ALMS as ANA refused to fund it.

I don't like the idea of running year old cars, especially if there's an updated version running elsewhere in the world. If you have a year old Audi dominating your series, while a newly updated Audi dominates in Europe, you can't sell yourselves as the top technological racing series in the country when your series can't even attract it's top team's technology.

[chernaudi]

Audi won Silverstone in '08 with a 2006 tub fitted with 2008 bodywork. And the ALMS cars from '08 were '07 or '06 cars with '08 body work. Teams do this all the time--I think that the newest Peugeot 908 is probably a year or two old.

As long as Audi doesn't change the tub design from year to year, they won't have a problem fielding updated cars--besides, the Audi R8 that won at Lime Rock in it's last race in '06 was built in January, 2002.

[TF110]

I'd rather see a coupe personally, open cars belong in Formula racing IMO. But whatever Audi chooses I hope it's better looking than the R15+! I think coupe would be a better option with the pit stop rules. Coupes are better in top speed are they not?

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by TF110

I'd rather see a coupe personally, open cars belong in Formula racing IMO...

Don't agree. Diversity please on the grids... think of all the sucessful open machines of Audi, the Porsche RS Spyder, the Pescarolo or the HPD/Acura...

[chernaudi]

Ullrich hinted after Le Mans that the R18 might be a closed car, but the recent discussion that the owner of the Audi fansite had with Audi brass at PLM doesn't confirm anything aside from the fact that the car is at an advance stage of design and that we may see it as early as late November or December when testing begins.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by carsten66

Don't agree. Diversity please on the grids... think of all the sucessful open machines of Audi, the Porsche RS Spyder, the Pescarolo or the HPD/Acura...

I don't like open top cars, that's just my opinion. They don't appeal to me at all. Aston Martin already has an open car, HPD will probably be an open car, lola has an open car also. I think Audi will go with the coupe option. I know Peugeot will stay with the coupe. I'm just eager to see what it looks like.

[gwyllion]

@chernaudi: at this stage none of the Audi and Peugeot people disclose details about their next year's car in any interview.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by carsten66

Don't agree. Diversity please on the grids... think of all the sucessful open machines of Audi, the Porsche RS Spyder, the Pescarolo or the HPD/Acura...

I'm all for diversity, but, to my mind, that means a lot more coupes to redress the balance in recent years.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm all for diversity, but, to my mind, that means a lot more coupes to redress the balance in recent years.

Well if Le Mans was to go back to it's true roots they'd have to be soft-top touring cars

I don't buy this "Le Mans cars should be coupes" or "Le Mans cars should be open prototypes". The post-war golden era was dominated by open prototypes, whilst the mid-to-late 80s golden era was solely for closed prototypes with production-based engines, and the late 90s mini-golden-era had a mixture of both and super GTs.

It doesn't matter what the cars look like - so long as they are road-relevant. That's what Le Mans purpose was in 1923, to demonstrate manufactures' reliability and technologies in competition and it still is now. I thought the ACO were about to hit the jack-pot when we saw closed prototypes with production engines again, but I was wrong - hybrid technology is what it's all about on the road now and that's where the debate lies. (BTW Ayse - I am most certainly not lecturing you, you don't need to be told any of this! I was just using your post to get this off my chest as I believe some posters have lost site of this! )

It doesn't matter whether the cars have roofs or not. Le Mans' success, or even survival, depends on how relevant it can keep itself over the next decade to the road market and the development of new technologies. I hope the ACO doesn't waste time by having this debate either, the rules are too restricted as they are and they should let designers loose.

[chernaudi]

The reason why coupes/GTPs weren't so popular is because back when the Bentley ran, you could run a larger air restrictor, but you also had to run narrower LMP675/LMP2 tires on the car. That meant that the Bentley go poorer fuel mileage than the Audi R8 and less mechanical grip. Only in '03 when the Bentley program became Audi's factory program for LM, and Dunlop was dumped in favor of Michelin did the Bentley come good.

However under the LMP1/2 rules, GTPs had larger air restrictors and got to run on LMP900/LMP1 tires. Peugeot clearly took advantage of the loophole, which with the new generation cars has been closed, as open and closed cars have to use the same size air restrictor if they want to use the same size rubber.

At the same time, Audi probably know that the GTPs will still have a slight speed advantage, especially at Le Mans, dute to less drag. Such cars can also potentially run the same downforce for the less drag as well, though that's of minimal benefit outside of Le Mans. Also, if the ACO stick to their pit regs, there's the argument that the open car is no longer needed.

Between all that, it seems that Ullrich has reasoned that they might as well go with a closed car, especially if the rules limit engine power to about 520-550 for the LMP1s next year. Granted, the Peugeot wouldn't have been nearly as successful if it had to run under the air restrictor/tire rules the Bentley had to, and maybe if it had to run the open car's air restrictor it wouldn't have won quite as many races. But the fact is that if Audi had known about the rules earlier in 2008, the R15 may've been a closed car as well.

One thing I wonder about is if Audi will go with a GTP car, will they stick with LHD like in the Audi R8C, and all Audi ipen LMPs, or will they do like Bentley and Peugeot and make the car RHD. Audi said that their races cars have been LHD because of relevance to their road cars(Audi being the first to standardize on LHD on the European continent), but may that change if the R18 is a coupe?

[TF110]

why left or right hand drive at all? Their paddle shifted, so they should be center drive like formula cars, no need to place the gear lever to the right or left of the driver, so with a closed car I'd assume it should be center drive, or is this not allowed? I always assumed the cars (closed) were centered in terms of driving position.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

why left or right hand drive at all? Their paddle shifted, so they should be center drive like formula cars, no need to place the gear lever to the right or left of the driver, so with a closed car I'd assume it should be center drive, or is this not allowed? I always assumed the cars (closed) were centered in terms of driving position.

Read the rules!

http://www.lemans.org/en/race/24h/regulation.html




L.P.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Read the rules!

http://www.lemans.org/en/race/24h/regulation.html




L.P.

A simple answer could have sufficed. And reading the rules it still doesn't say whether there has to be left or right hand drive. If you could point me to where it says or explains this in the rules I'd be more than appreciative. But from what I've read of the rules there isn't anything clear in those terms.