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Old 11 Oct 2010, 20:09 (Ref:2773356)   #276
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Originally Posted by HORNDAWG View Post
'CTD': You are not suggesting that is the case now though, right?

I agree that the cockpit should be able to fit two average size men at the same time shoulder to shoulder while being able to function safely at 200mph! And yes mounting electronics there is fine instead of a seat, IMO.
L.P.
Well, looking at my R8 model car, removing the bar on the drivers right side, which split the hole in two, would make enough physical space for another seat.

I miss Mike in this discussion as he probably could give the discussion an extra edge.
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 01:04 (Ref:2774108)   #277
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Audi Sport engine czar Ullrich Baretzky on the future of LMP engines and KERS. Doesn't say what will be in the Audi R18, but provides hints on what may be on the way in the future, and hints that stress mounted four cylinders engines are possible: http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no257.html
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 09:06 (Ref:2774235)   #278
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OK guys, I think we should all be able to find that link now - I've certainly found it in THREE separate threads.......
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 10:56 (Ref:2774294)   #279
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I love how chernaudi motivated posting that link in the Peugeot topic. Baretzky says that the 4 cilinder GRE can be put into a LMP1 cars, so that means that Peugeot might to do that. I am quite sure that we have seen some AER powered LMP cars in the past
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 15:44 (Ref:2774420)   #280
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I'm not too sure how well we can compare AER powered privateers to Peugeot or Audi/VAG.
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 20:53 (Ref:2774546)   #281
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I'm not too sure how well we can compare AER powered privateers to Peugeot or Audi/VAG.
Well, if AER can make a somewhat okay car, with a l4, then Audi and Peugeot definitely can too.
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 21:27 (Ref:2774568)   #282
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What's of interest as far as the Peugeot thread is that Baretzky mentioned that the Audi/VW F3 engine was stress mounted. The AER P07 and MZR-R are semi-stressed mounted in a tube-frame extention that bolts to the carbon tub. He also suggests that the F1 1.6T four bangers will/should be capable of stress mounting. Peugeot would want to got the stress mounted route, but that would mean an engine built from scratch or a siginifanctly modified block and head for a stock block engine, like the P07 and the MZR-R.

However, it seems that Peugeot will have to figure that out for themselves, as Baretzky didn't offer any details on how the VW F3 engine was modified to be stress mounted.
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Old 13 Oct 2010, 21:40 (Ref:2774578)   #283
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Peugeot would want to got the stress mounted route, but that would mean an engine built from scratch or a siginifanctly modified block and head for a stock block engine, like the P07 and the MZR-R.
The only thing the AER MZR-R shares with a Mazda stock engine is its name.
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AER technical director Oliver Allan recalls, 'The initial brief was to convert the MZR to a race engine, but we saw some issues with that, the biggest being to get a dry sump into the engine in an economical manner. The compromise that we reached was to have a new design of engine, but one heavily based on the MZR. There are no common parts and, while the cams could be said to be of a similar design, they do not carry across.'
soure: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...zr-r-lmp2.html

Last edited by gwyllion; 13 Oct 2010 at 21:47.
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Old 14 Oct 2010, 06:32 (Ref:2774715)   #284
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post

However, it seems that Peugeot will have to figure that out for themselves, as Baretzky didn't offer any details on how the VW F3 engine was modified to be stress mounted.

Don't think Peugeot engine department will have too much trouble working it out judging by their ability to produce the best engine of the big two since they came in 3 years ago.
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Old 14 Oct 2010, 12:33 (Ref:2774839)   #285
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Don't think Peugeot engine department will have too much trouble working it out judging by their ability to produce the best engine of the big two since they came in 3 years ago.
Besides, i don't think the VW F3 cars are so expensive that Peugeot can't afford one used.
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Old 14 Oct 2010, 16:10 (Ref:2774940)   #286
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TRuss should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTRuss should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That was my fault. I misunderstood. I thought that gwyllion was knocking on the AER powered cars. Reading it again I see that he wasn't. You can delete my post if you want.
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 07:08 (Ref:2779284)   #287
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cptkablamo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcptkablamo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hearing that the R18 is nearing completion for testing in November
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 17:56 (Ref:2779706)   #288
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Hearing that the R18 is nearing completion for testing in November
If Peugeot is smart, they'll keep their car from the public until the new year, so they can use any design ideas Audi might have come up with, without Audi stealing some back.
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 18:15 (Ref:2779715)   #289
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Problem is that Peugeot's Bruno Famin said at Silverstone that Peugeot was aiming for a similar time line for the 90X--car was nearly complete, and would test after the ILMC ended in November.

However, we didn't know what the 2010 evolution of the Audi R15 looked like until March, and even then Audi had a few more tweaks up the sleeve.

It seems that the R18 and the 90x will hit the track for the first time on a similar time table, and that's plenty of time for Audi and Peugeot to spy on each other--after all, Dr. Ullrich has said that by March (Sebring) that if a major ACO rules change was made, unless it was a compliance/saftey issue, that there wouldn't be a hell of a lot that Audi can do then, though he was probably refering to KERS. Peugeot is probably in the same boat, obviously, with their new car, and the regs not being 100% clear, certianly to us, though both Audi and Peugeot claim to know what 99% of the rules for 2011 are.
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 18:25 (Ref:2779717)   #290
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Problem is that Peugeot's Bruno Famin said at Silverstone that Peugeot was aiming for a similar time line for the 90X--car was nearly complete, and would test after the ILMC ended in November.

However, we didn't know what the 2010 evolution of the Audi R15 looked like until March, and even then Audi had a few more tweaks up the sleeve.

It seems that the R18 and the 90x will hit the track for the first time on a similar time table, and that's plenty of time for Audi and Peugeot to spy on each other--after all, Dr. Ullrich has said that by March (Sebring) that if a major ACO rules change was made, unless it was a compliance/saftey issue, that there wouldn't be a hell of a lot that Audi can do then, though he was probably refering to KERS. Peugeot is probably in the same boat, obviously, with their new car, and the regs not being 100% clear, certianly to us, though both Audi and Peugeot claim to know what 99% of the rules for 2011 are.
Dr. Ullrichs comment was on the engine regulation. Aerodynamics can be changed over a few months (of course nothing major).

But yes, if they launch at the same time they have the same time to change according to each other. Unless they choose 2 different paths again (Coupe and Spyder)
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 19:00 (Ref:2779740)   #291
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And that may be known in November, or at least when Audi and Peugeot publically lanuch their new cars. For Audi, a lot of buzz has been generated about the new A6 sedan, which is rumored to be launched very likely before the end of this year. We know enough about it to know that appearance wise, it's an evolution of the current A6, but Audi in the spy shots has been able to keep their cards close to their chests.

Like this year, Audi has done a ton of testing at various tracks, especially before Le Mans, and few if any photos have showed up aside from a few spy shots and video captures for the RTL/Motors TV videos that Audi Sport helped produce, and Audi Sport's own press shots.

I think that Audi and Peugeot will disguise their cars as much as possible (black carbon fiber seems to be a good camoflage from long range camera shots--ask anyone who's filmed any of the Twilight Saga films about that. Eclipse director David Slade was PO'd two fold--that the paps were using long range lenses, and that they were taking bad shots, saying that if they were gonna spend the effort, why not take a freakin' decent picture!). However, once the cars are pubically launched (which Audi and Peugeot have done late in initial testing in the past), all bets are off.
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 19:07 (Ref:2779746)   #292
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I'm not sure Audi and Peugeot will want to copy what the other is doing in terms of design. The R10 and R15 went on a completely different path to the 908, so I wouldn't be surprised if the R18 and 90X are even further apart than that in terms of development directions.

In any case, the "spy shots" of the new cars will pop up only when Audi and Peugeot want them to pop up.
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 19:24 (Ref:2779751)   #293
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In any case, the "spy shots" of the new cars will pop up only when Audi and Peugeot want them to pop up.
This is FAR from true!
The original R15 was shown to public a month before it was planned!
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Old 24 Oct 2010, 21:12 (Ref:2779819)   #294
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According to Henri Pescarolo, Peugeot is already testing the 90X as revealed in that Motorsport-Total.com interview.
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Old 25 Oct 2010, 01:28 (Ref:2779936)   #295
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Where do you think they'll test? Monza? An airfield? We might see spy vids on Youtube or shots on other sites in a few weeks!
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Old 25 Oct 2010, 11:15 (Ref:2780167)   #296
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I´m pretty sure PSA does have private test facilities no one has access to that are suitable for first shakedown runs.
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Old 25 Oct 2010, 20:08 (Ref:2780386)   #297
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Both have to test on a real track at some point, and if rumours of Peugeot already having run their new car pre Petit are true then it should be track testing very soon.
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Old 26 Oct 2010, 01:20 (Ref:2780522)   #298
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If you put 2 and 2 together you might say the r18 will be a V6 TDI closed coupe with the porsche flywheel kers on it.

2 and 2 being,
2. Porsche testing the flywheel at petit lemans -porsche audi linkage
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2. The three audi guys racing the hybrid.
Of course the quickest way for audi to test a hybrid is to throw it into the back of old reliable(the porsche)
They want to see what potential issues could be such as the tire blowouts the porsche had and fix the issues now. Ver smart by volkswagen group sharing the knowledge.

Something tells me that Williams flywheel will be a hot commodity in the coming years in multiple series since it does not need the battery,Some series i see it in are, indycar, DTM, Grandam, Lemans, F1
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Old 26 Oct 2010, 01:23 (Ref:2780523)   #299
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the flywheel may be popular, but i don't think it'll be the choice. It's relatively heavy. Which is why Williams never used it in F1. I think they can better the technology though, perhaps make it lighter. I see this just being used by Audi/Porsche. Not a lot of others though.
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Old 26 Oct 2010, 02:24 (Ref:2780536)   #300
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the flywheel may be popular, but i don't think it'll be the choice. It's relatively heavy. Which is why Williams never used it in F1.
It is certainly lighter than a bank of batteries. It was not used due to safety concerns raised by the FIA.
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