[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Frankly if the project is realised at all, I expect them to limp around the grid for a year or two and promptly fold. Maybe he's got some gems tucked away in that business plan of his but I don't see any wow factor that distinguishes him from the rest and he'll have trouble picking up the kind of people that'll work up and match his team with the big boys. As a fan though I welcome the new addition, I'm just not convinced it'll turn heads.

I had assumed that he'd pick up Lotus, STR, Caterham or Force India. Teams that are discreetly on the market or/and ones struggling. There's no shortage of those unfortunately. It is a declaration of intent, to start from scratch, presumably he wants the American stamp all over this team rather than a rebranding exercise. May very well prove commercially foolhardy though.

I am tending to agree. This is someone who may chew through the thick end of two or three hundred million before he realises what he's stepped into. He could do what our Austrian friend has done but it will take a Newey type person or people to be with him if he is ever going to be on a podium on a regular basis. I wish them the best but there may be some lessons to learn here.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I get the impression he is a racing fan, and a fan with the drive to actually go racing (team ownership).

I got the impression he is a big fan of money, with hopes of making lots of it from F1.

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

* Regarding 2014 vs. 2015, Haas says 2014 is probably too soon and 2015 is too far away.

I know Haas's has a wind tunnel, but I wasn't aware he has a time tunnel as well.

[wolfhound]

Montoya thinks that Haas is mad to try F1 maybe he's right.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113475

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by 321Go

I know Haas's has a wind tunnel, but I wasn't aware he has a time tunnel as well.

haha

Sorry for the typo. I had typed that reply quickly. It was supposed to read 2015 close, 2016 far.

Richard

[csirl]

As someone who's not from the UK, I fully understand where Haas is coming from with his home base and, based on the reaction to previous posts of mine, I've come to the conclusion that UK fans simply don't get the fact that F1 needs to have a team line-up with a more multinational field if it is to survive longterm as a global sport. Buying a UK team doesn't achieve anything for anyone who wants to expand F1's international horizons.

As for hiring experienced F1 staff, I don't see it as being as big a deal as people think. There are plenty of out of work experienced people in UK and elsewhere in Europe who would happily take a well paid job in the USA. There are many others who'd move for a modest pay increase. I don't see the U.S. location as being a big deal when it comes to recruitment.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by csirl

As someone who's not from the UK, I fully understand where Haas is coming from with his home base and, based on the reaction to previous posts of mine, I've come to the conclusion that UK fans simply don't get the fact that F1 needs to have a team line-up with a more multinational field if it is to survive longterm as a global sport. Buying a UK team doesn't achieve anything for anyone who wants to expand F1's international horizons.

As for hiring experienced F1 staff, I don't see it as being as big a deal as people think. There are plenty of out of work experienced people in UK and elsewhere in Europe who would happily take a well paid job in the USA. There are many others who'd move for a modest pay increase. I don't see the U.S. location as being a big deal when it comes to recruitment.

Formula 1 is difficult enough without trying to do it with one hand behind your back. With the exception of Ferrari, when was the last time there was a successful team that wasn't based in Carbon Fibre Valley?

Just a few problems that spring to mind with being based in the USA:

• It will be difficult to recruit experienced staff (whatever csirl might think).
• No nearby suppliers with F1 knowledge and experience.
• Local engineers and mechanics use inches, not metric.
• Difficult to share transport and logistics with the other teams.
• Specialist suppliers all thousands of miles away.
• All other suppliers, teams and the FIA in a very different time zone.

It wouldn't be the first time a newcomer has entered F1 thinking he knows better. If Gene Haas succeeds though, he will be the first one to be right.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

just speculating (reaching even) but there is the ex-Toyota F1 base in Cologne and if Toyota is one of the potential backers then this could be an interesting team.

The TMG guys are pretty top notch, just look at the work they've done on the TS030 and TS040 P1 cars! You could do a lot worse than the boys in Cologne.

And back to the doom mongering, Montoya has something to say...

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

It's always baffled me that Coca-Cola, Pepsi and McDonald's have never got into F1 in a serious way.

They are mass market companies with already huge public profiles. They do not need to be in F1 to get their message across.
If they were to sponsor a team as naming sponsor the cost is disproportionate to the benefit.

7up as a division of Pepsi had a Jordan deal in their first season and has had some other minor deals but it was never big money.

Subway will not do a primary team sponsor deal. It will probably be around drivers (personal deals), secondary low level team stuff, and maybe trackside or an event (s) emerging mass markets.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Subway will not do a primary team sponsor deal. It will probably be around drivers (personal deals), secondary low level team stuff, and maybe trackside or an event (s) emerging mass markets.

I sure hope they are not a primary sponsor. I was cringing at the thoughts of the various photoshopped images we might see (think "Hero sandwhich" shaped F1 cars).

Richard

[Inigo Montoya]

I would welcome Subway as an F1 sponsor. If a virtually dead company like Blackberry can sponsor a top F1 team, I don't see how its any more ridiculous for Subway to do so.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I sure hope they are not a primary sponsor. I was cringing at the thoughts of the various photoshopped images we might see (think "Hero sandwhich" shaped F1 cars).

Richard

And flames. Don't forget the flames. Green and yellow ones.

[Greem]

There's a lot of noses hiding behind black paint right now, crying out to be wrapped as a Footlong...

[Richard C]

Maybe Jared can be the American driver!



Richard

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

There's a lot of noses hiding behind black paint right now, crying out to be wrapped as a Footlong...

Brilliant !

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Maybe Jared can be the American driver!



Richard

[AngusJ]

Does he realize this little adventure will bankrupt him? Most of the teams in F1 are financial disasters

[321Go]

Originally Posted by AngusJ

Does he realize this little adventure will bankrupt him? Most of the teams in F1 are financial disasters

From reading between the lines of what Gene Hass said at the press conference, if GH is not making money from F1 within five years of being in the sport, he probably will not be in it.

[grumpyf14d]

In F1 it's all about how much you are willing to spend to win. For a US team to find success it would have to spend even more to firstly entice experienced personnel to join the team and secondly create the infrustructure to support the team. Are there US companies willing to invest in the platform that F1 represents considering its market exposure and demographics? UPS and GE think so. Are there individual investors willing to back such an endeavor? Maybe. The real question is whether there will be enough money over the time it will take to find success. Lastly, will the team be able to attract, organize and keep enough talent to be successful?

The viscious cycle of money and talent will be key. Both will have to exist for CH to succeed. I would imagine that he has less than a 1 in 5 chance of succeeding.

Red Bull Racing is the model for success in F1 but that was done on the back of an established lineage in a country where the infrustructure exists. Add in the fact that the viability of F1 is at an all time low and it's quite easy to see why folks don't believe it will succeed.

[P38 in workshop]

If he was willing to deviate from the plan of an entirely American outfit,the former Lola base in Huntingdon is being advertised at the moment.Much closer to the talent pool than North Carolina and ready to go.The other disadvantage to an American operating base,which nobody seems to have mentioned yet,is that should they qualify for Bernie's free travel after a year or two it will get expensive for them to get their cars and personnel to the pick up point.With an operating base in Huntingdon or Cologne it would be much easier to operate.
The other challenge for the Haas team will be to convince American businesses and fans to take an interest.Its a fairly insular country,with very few people possessing passports and consequently not too aware of what goes on elsewhere.They have a heavily promoted domestic series that races for nine months of the year at times accessible to domestic viewers.How do you sell a series to sponsors and viewers when it races in distant and mysterious locations at odd times of the day when few people are watching TV?
I really would like Mr Haas to succeed in his endeavours,if only to add some colour to the increasingly sterile F1 paddock.With his proposed methodology I have to conclude that he has a mountain to climb.

[grumpyf14d]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

The other challenge for the Haas team will be to convince American businesses and fans to take an interest.Its a fairly insular country,with very few people possessing passports and consequently not too aware of what goes on elsewhere.They have a heavily promoted domestic series that races for nine months of the year at times accessible to domestic viewers.How do you sell a series to sponsors and viewers when it races in distant and mysterious locations at odd times of the day when few people are watching TV?

P38 makes some good points and a few that are frankly way off the mark. Haas doesn't need a US audience for success nor does he need sponsors and investors from the US. He needs to outspend the competition which is the only way to succeed in F1, because the money will pay for the lack of infrastructure and transportation plus attract the talent needed to put a good car on the grid. The investors and sponsors don't come from the UK and a lot don't even come from Europe, yet the teams based in the UK are able to garner enough funding to succeed. There are a growing number of US companies and investors that would find F1 a platform for their products and services, like UPS. Tec companies would be a likely source of funding coming from the US. The one thing for sure is he's got his work cut out for him. Fielding a car prior to 2016 though would certainly only be for the investors and assure them grid spots at the back.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by AngusJ

Does he realize this little adventure will bankrupt him? Most of the teams in F1 are financial disasters

I've never thought of F1 as a particularly good place to make money.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I've never thought of F1 as a particularly good place to make money.

You should never use your own money to go racing, old Chinese proverb.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by grumpyf14d

P38 makes some good points and a few that are frankly way off the mark. Haas doesn't need a US audience for success nor does he need sponsors and investors from the US. He needs to outspend the competition which is the only way to succeed in F1, because the money will pay for the lack of infrastructure and transportation plus attract the talent needed to put a good car on the grid. The investors and sponsors don't come from the UK and a lot don't even come from Europe, yet the teams based in the UK are able to garner enough funding to succeed. There are a growing number of US companies and investors that would find F1 a platform for their products and services, like UPS. Tec companies would be a likely source of funding coming from the US. The one thing for sure is he's got his work cut out for him. Fielding a car prior to 2016 though would certainly only be for the investors and assure them grid spots at the back.

Haas may not necessarily need a US audience for success but I think a well known US sponsor, with a global presence, would help generate greater audience interest in the US and in turn create better awareness and improve F1's profile in the US. The US is a huge market and one that F1 needs to take advantage of and this could open the door for greater involvement of US companies in F1. Going to places like S Korea, India etc., is just short termist for the future of F1. The US has a very long motorsports heritage, just take the Indy 500.

[JeremySmith]

We love our racing !

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Casper

You should never use your own money to go racing, old Chinese proverb.

Old Chinese proverb?

I thought it was Roger Penske....