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Old 6 Jun 2014, 13:15 (Ref:3416190)   #676
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This is less relevant at Monaco though... and is heavily outweighed by the risks I indicated earlier.
When you are measuring down to 1/1000s, it doesn't how much less relevent it is or how much faster the track is....it only have to be relevent/faster for 1/1000th faster than the other guy....

Point being, you will never get away from the fact the track it at its fastest right at the end of qualifying, and since LH and NR as so similar in lap times (albeit with different techniques) it's always going to come right down to the wire.
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Old 6 Jun 2014, 13:29 (Ref:3416198)   #677
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When you are measuring down to 1/1000s, it doesn't how much less relevent it is or how much faster the track is....it only have to be relevent/faster for 1/1000th faster than the other guy....

Point being, you will never get away from the fact the track it at its fastest right at the end of qualifying, and since LH and NR as so similar in lap times (albeit with different techniques) it's always going to come right down to the wire.
Of course, but there are so many 'ifs' at Monaco that it's not as cut and dry as it would be somewhere else. For example, the risks of being caught in traffic, suffering a yellow, making a mistake etc... are far greater than anywhere else. In ideal circumstances, with an identical effort, the last lap would be better... but very often drivers are unable to get ideal conditions at Monaco which is why it is absolutely imperative to nail your banker as much as you'd nail your final lap.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 02:24 (Ref:3416765)   #678
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 10:03 (Ref:3416852)   #679
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It worries me how many people are fixated on the relationship between these two drivers when it's the racing that is important. Opponents are rarely friendly with so much at stake and no doubt Nico and Lewis will be friends again in a few years when this is all water under the bridge. For now, who cares? Bring on a fight to liven up this one team season I say
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 10:07 (Ref:3416853)   #680
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That nails it really. You (we) want a fight to "liven up" the championship. If they stopped dicking with the rules and returned to proper racing with real cars then those cars would speak for themselves. Instead we have to get into the politics to find some excitement. Sad really.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 11:46 (Ref:3416874)   #681
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And it all treats the fan with a great big dollop of contempt when neither of them, Lewis especially, can act. Just watch the post quali press conference if you're not sure.

It almost seems like the pressure is forcing Hamilton to regress into childhood. By the end of the season he may literally be throwing toys at people and refusing his dummy.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 13:42 (Ref:3416904)   #682
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It worries me how many people are fixated on the relationship between these two drivers when it's the racing that is important. Opponents are rarely friendly with so much at stake and no doubt Nico and Lewis will be friends again in a few years when this is all water under the bridge. For now, who cares? Bring on a fight to liven up this one team season I say
I'm not worried. It's skewed because there's saturation coverage, only so much mileage can be excavated from Merc winning all the time so they zero in unduly on their bickering and the fans, in their turn, get pulled into that vortex. That said, his relationship with his rival is an important part of the championship calculus. Hamilton and Rosberg need to hold it together and fend of external and internal pressures that may harm them.

I'd sooner that tension being recorded than the minute and pedestrian voyeurism over Hambos fraught relationship with the Nicole lady.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 20:36 (Ref:3417098)   #683
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Hamilton will be bitter over this one...Again Rosberg treading hot waters. I think what we see here is that Rosberg utilizes throttle more to achieve laptime, and Hamilton is much more aggressive with the brakes. I'm guessing Rosberg is told he is missing on corner entry to Lewis most of the time. He doesn't seem to be able to drive hard entry the way Lewis can. Rosberg is notorious for front lockup this season.

Rosberg generally has much higher fuel usage each race, but it was Hamilton's brakes that failed.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 20:59 (Ref:3417108)   #684
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L1 T2 was a little nasty... But Hamilton did the same defending a couple of times in Bahrain, so twit-for-tat I guess.

Interesting that NR was asking after LH's brake bias on the radio in the first stint when LH was clearly quicker, and told LH had more rearward bias... Only for his rear brakes to overheat later.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 21:18 (Ref:3417135)   #685
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re: Canada. Real shame LH went out - was looking like it was going to be an very interesting finish. Well, it was anyway, but adding LH to the mix would have made it even more interesting. Good drive by NR though. They were extremely closely matched the whole weekend.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 04:01 (Ref:3417299)   #686
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...Hum. Not sure if if been mentioned, but I'd sure would like to see what this championship would look like if they couldn't look at each others' data.

Seriously, why do they have to look at each others' data? It's not like they're trying to catch up to anyone. Yeah, share some of the data, data that helps improve the car, but not all. How is a driver to utilize their advantages in a race if the other guy knows when/how to use them?

Also, curious to see what people think about N.R. not getting a penalty for blowing that final chicane? L.H. went from being in the DRS zone to being out of it for the following four laps (also, more time to cook those brakes).

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Old 9 Jun 2014, 05:14 (Ref:3417305)   #687
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...Hum. Not sure if if been mentioned, but I'd sure would like to see what this championship would look like if they couldn't look at each others' data.

Seriously, why do they have to look at each others' data? It's not like they're trying to catch up to anyone. Yeah, share some of the data, data that helps improve the car, but not all. How is a driver to utilize their advantages in a race if the other guy knows when/how to use them?

Also, curious to see what people think about N.R. not getting a penalty for blowing that final chicane? L.H. went from being in the DRS zone to being out of it for the following four laps (also, more time to cook those brakes).
This was one of Casey Stoner's big beefs in MotoGP.
Everyone else at Ducati and Honda were able to access and copy all his set up data.

It would be interesting indeed if they were allowed to withhold data from their team mate.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 07:05 (Ref:3417332)   #688
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Who do guys think would have the advantage if they didn't share any data?
Nico or Lewis?
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 07:05 (Ref:3417333)   #689
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...Hum. Not sure if if been mentioned, but I'd sure would like to see what this championship would look like if they couldn't look at each others' data.

Seriously, why do they have to look at each others' data? It's not like they're trying to catch up to anyone. Yeah, share some of the data, data that helps improve the car, but not all. How is a driver to utilize their advantages in a race if the other guy knows when/how to use them?

Also, curious to see what people think about N.R. not getting a penalty for blowing that final chicane? L.H. went from being in the DRS zone to being out of it for the following four laps (also, more time to cook those brakes).
The fight between the two Mercs gives us an insight into what a spec. racing might be like... the data sharing adds even more transparency to the process meaning that we really begin to see the differences in driving style and ability over the entire weekend.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 07:53 (Ref:3417358)   #690
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...Hum. Not sure if if been mentioned, but I'd sure would like to see what this championship would look like if they couldn't look at each others' data.

Seriously, why do they have to look at each others' data? It's not like they're trying to catch up to anyone. Yeah, share some of the data, data that helps improve the car, but not all. How is a driver to utilize their advantages in a race if the other guy knows when/how to use them?

Also, curious to see what people think about N.R. not getting a penalty for blowing that final chicane? L.H. went from being in the DRS zone to being out of it for the following four laps (also, more time to cook those brakes).
Thing to remember is that this is a team sport and that each team wants to do as well as possible with both cars so data sharing to maximise the performance of both cars makes complete sense.

The data is the team's data, it is not the driver's data and the team want to use as much information as possible to strengthen the position of both cars.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 09:55 (Ref:3417415)   #691
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Also, curious to see what people think about N.R. not getting a penalty for blowing that final chicane? L.H. went from being in the DRS zone to being out of it for the following four laps (also, more time to cook those brakes).
If drivers from different teams were involved, I've no doubt there would have been a penalty if NR did not let LH pass. No point in the stewards telling Merc to make NR concede the spot as Merc has the ability to order its drivers to do what it wants and can ultimately arrange the cars to be in any order it wants post implementing any stewards request.

Confirms that NR is the #1 driver in the team. If LH was the #1 or equal #1, Merc would have asked NR to concede the spot and there could be no real argument from NR about doing it.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 10:11 (Ref:3417418)   #692
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I thought the rule was that if you gained an advantage i.e. a position by leaving the track you have to give it back. If the driver makes a mistake and avoids an accident by going straight while maintaining his race position that is a slightly different situation because it is impossible to know if he would have lost the position had he gone through the chicane correctly.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 10:11 (Ref:3417419)   #693
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Or that they are actually equal status. Your argument would only have any meaning if Lewis was ordered behind in a similar situation.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 10:17 (Ref:3417423)   #694
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Remember the good old days?
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 10:28 (Ref:3417430)   #695
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I thought the rule was that if you gained an advantage i.e. a position by leaving the track you have to give it back. If the driver makes a mistake and avoids an accident by going straight while maintaining his race position that is a slightly different situation because it is impossible to know if he would have lost the position had he gone through the chicane correctly.
Would be a farce if you cut all the corners and chicanes so long as you didn't pass anyone out. Could put in some great lap times.

Surely not crashing out is gaining an advantage?
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 10:34 (Ref:3417436)   #696
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Would be a farce if you cut all the corners and chicanes so long as you didn't pass anyone out. Could put in some great lap times.

Surely not crashing out is gaining an advantage?
Yes, habitual corner cutting will usually be penalised, I would assume if Rosberg had done it again that would have been it.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 11:54 (Ref:3417478)   #697
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I thought the rule was that if you gained an advantage i.e. a position by leaving the track you have to give it back.
Nico Rosberg wants the rules changed.

Rosberg: "It is worth discussing, because it going to the stewards is a bit strange.

"It is something that we all agreed among ourselves, and especially that the first time you can maybe get a warning, but you cannot do it three times in a row."
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 12:22 (Ref:3417497)   #698
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...and Rosberg said he slowed down to narrow the gap after blowing the corner and the stewards took that into consideration also.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 14:05 (Ref:3417557)   #699
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Nico Rosberg wants the rules changed.

Rosberg: "It is worth discussing, because it going to the stewards is a bit strange.

"It is something that we all agreed among ourselves, and especially that the first time you can maybe get a warning, but you cannot do it three times in a row."
It probably does need clarification. There used to be some basic understandings the stewards applied so everyone knew what the standards were and knew what the consequences were.

The Massa / Hamilton decision at Spa overturned all that and since then there have been several odd decisions where the stewards have clearly varied the consistency that existed before and its become rather capricious. and arbitrary.

So Nico wants clarity on it and it is only fair and responsible of the stewards to do that. Penalties and the 'rules of competition' like this should always be open, transparent and consistently applied in similar circumstances so there is no variation in the principles of competition under which the decisions are made.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 18:03 (Ref:3417698)   #700
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Who do guys think would have the advantage if they didn't share any data?
Nico or Lewis?
That's just it-we don't know, but one thing's for sure, they wouldn't be as close to each other in a race as they are now. I'd be ****ed if I had to share my data with a slower driver, or one not as savvy as me. He gets to say, 'OH-THAT'S how he does it.', and I'm like, 'What the hell am I getting out of this "two-way" relationship?'
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