Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[JagtechOhio]

Nice job, I think you scooped the whole world with that.

Lola mentions U.S. production, but falls short of the commitments Mr. Dallara has pledged.

These are great evolutionary designs, with the safety improvements the IICS is looking for. The common tub for IndyLights is a practical approach.

However, I don't think they have gone far enough to change the face of IndyCar racing, or demonstrate enough reason to dump the existing supplier for a new one.

Dallara #3 still gets my vote to satisfy all of the criteria. It's a more radical evolution that could still possibly enable old equipment to run on the race track along side it.

Everybody wants variety, no manufacturers will subsidize it. Alternate body kits can be made for any chassis that receives final approval, and Lola did a nice job of that.

Still, nobody can build prototypes until IICS tells them what general configuration is going in the engine bay.

[ptclaus98]

That Lola is hands down the winner, IMO. That needs to be it.

[JagtechOhio]

You think that is a radical enough change to justify replacing the existing cars? I'm in favor of more innovation than that: the Lola, Swift and first two Dallara designs do not have enough distinguishing general features for a new audience to identify.

[nickyf1]

Lola have went for the sensible option, and it looks damn good! Common tub is a great idea, you could give a free Indycar upgrade kit for the Indy Lights champion or something like that, great cost cutting measure. Low downforce set up too and sensible wheel protectors. I like it The Swift's rear wing is much nicer, but I would rather see the Dallara, Swift and Lola up against each other.

Common tub could cut costs for any other teams/manufacturers wanting to build a car.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

You think that is a radical enough change to justify replacing the existing cars? I'm in favor of more innovation than that: the Lola, Swift and first two Dallara designs do not have enough distinguishing general features for a new audience to identify.

The cars right now are ugly, but they aren't as much a problem as the lone engine. Lola B12/00 + turbo'd World Motorsport Engine = Pure awesome

[gttouring]

why not the common tub?
have that component spec'd out and built in Indy along side the rear crash atenuator etc by whoever set up shop. and who ever doesn't Lola-Dallara-Switft all build nose cones/wings/sidepods/diffusers/and rear wings... so allow them to innovate
multiple maufacturers, common safety not needing approval and hell's limit on the customer pieces. (bought as a set of course)

[JagtechOhio]

Clause, I guessed you missed post #268 in this thread. The Audi World Engine, when it is reality, could be added to the list of at least six choices which already exist.

gt, it's all about market share and profit margin, period. The dollars have to make it worth the investment to start production runs on components, never mind entire finished chassis. Too small a piece of too small a pie will not entice major manufacturers to participate.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

The Audi World Engine, when it is reality, could be added to the list of at least six choices which already exist.

What other six choices are those?

I like the look of the Lola, then again living in England I'm slightly biased when it comes to English racing engineering.

[nickyf1]

I'm Scottish; I hate the English ( I love you guys really) and I love the Lola, its a fusion of the DP01 and the older Dallara/G-Force mixed in with some evolutionary parts, just what is needed.

The common tub idea is genious! As has already been said, just give teams a common tub or chassis and let them innovate with the aero.

[Peat]

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Lola already discussed

[Down F0rce]

I'm still in the Delta Wing camp but the idea of a common tub is a great one.

[gttouring]

i do like the delta wing-
but i can't see it as the only chassis- and talk about back peddle- if the actual racing these doesn't work- then what will happen?
widen the track up front and make that shark fin a wing by adding a 'T' section to the top?
the delta would be cool- bI still think the road course variant should have a wing and a wide track-these are indy cars-open wheel cars for crying out loud, let them all race whatever!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peat

DELETED

Lola already discussed

What's that supposed to mean?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Sorry my browser locked up.

[Down F0rce]

Here in the UK, we have an awful tabloid called The Sun. They typically ignore motorsport except F1, and only started following it properly when Lewis started winning. Yet they have an article on the Delta Wing on their website.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...he-future.html

I knew this car would get people talking. It's the only one that can. If this car can do what Bowlby (and what reasons are there to doubt him?) says it can then it's the only choice.

[courageous]

I think the delta is exactly what is needed in terms of cost, racing & exposure; there is just one problem....

Where are you going to find drivers for it?

Indylights will have to do something similar but even then Indycar will surely become totally divorced from the rest of open wheel racing - a euro F3/GP2 etc winner or driver just dumped out of F1 hoping to return is not going to consider the delta indycar as a way to keep their eye sharp.

That is a huge risk, but if it pays off & they can create a completely new racing formula (as in stock car, LMP/GT, open wheel, rally) then it will pay off huge, if not then I reckon Indy will recover to no worse than now in 5 years - look what happened to Le Mans after it's almost catastrophic mistakes in the early '90s.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained & what we have at the moment has to change.

[nickyf1]

To be quite honest, as has been said before, the whole idea of Indy was breaking speed records and showing that cars could run at certain speeds for a certain amount of time, much like how the American X planes achieved Mach 1, Mach 2 and so on. If they want to keep this going ater a 15 year delay, they will need to begin with something that has already been proven and let the greatest engineering minds develop it over the long term. This would mean saying ''Indycar are racing at Indy next week, bring along your car and see how you can do'' like the old days. To me, the Delta Wing is innovative, yes. But to me the Delta Wing is a synthetic piece of innovation, rather that something organic, like an engineering equivelant of a competition caution. Its all exciting and all that, but its just not the same.

[gttouring]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

To be quite honest, as has been said before, the whole idea of Indy was breaking speed records and showing that cars could run at certain speeds for a certain amount of time, much like how the American X planes achieved Mach 1, Mach 2 and so on. If they want to keep this going ater a 15 year delay, they will need to begin with something that has already been proven and let the greatest engineering minds develop it over the long term. This would mean saying ''Indycar are racing at Indy next week, bring along your car and see how you can do'' like the old days. To me, the Delta Wing is innovative, yes. But to me the Delta Wing is a synthetic piece of innovation, rather that something organic, like an engineering equivelant of a competition caution. Its all exciting and all that, but its just not the same.

i see the point- which i don't know why it hasn't been said before.
let them all race whatever.
and engine builders can worry about the rest.
wouldn't it be cheaper?
just keep simple rules in place... it seems to work at LeMans..

[JagtechOhio]

to Down FOrce,

Thanks for the local news, always good to hear.

I think the "novelty" factor is the only positive feature that distinguishes the Delta. The attention you pointed out is the main reason why so many of the owners are supporting it, in my opinion.

The question is how they will react when it is not selected as the Series' choice.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

to Down FOrce,

Thanks for the local news, always good to hear.

I think the "novelty" factor is the only positive feature that distinguishes the Delta. The attention you pointed out is the main reason why so many of the owners are supporting it, in my opinion.

The question is how they will react when it is not selected as the Series' choice.

You aren't the only one who is asking that question, JagTechOhio, as noted by my "First Shot Fired Across the IRL's Bow" response to one of your previous posts.

The team owners want a serious change in direction for this Series and this is an important element of that change to them.

Others who wonder about this include journalists such as Curt Cavin, and I believe Robin Miller has hinted at possible problems if the Delta Wing is not selected.

Since many of the owners do support this and very few are not officially on board, could we see a repeat of the split?

Only time will tell...

[JagtechOhio]

Righto mate, it continues to amaze that so many who watch these events unfold are not looking at the big picture.

I just watched the Robin Miller interview on Speed TV, and his impartiality has crumbled like a carbon fiber nose cone. If SAFER barriers have been erected in this discussion, they are only for people to hide behind.

Now the Menard engine deal goes down: Mr. George is a Delta Charter member, and obviously linked to Mr. Menard. I haven't researched it yet, could this signal a move to Indy for the new Delta engine supplier?

The web of influence is far reaching whether that is another signal or not.

As for me, no news is bad news.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

You aren't the only one who is asking that question, JagTechOhio, as noted by my "First Shot Fired Across the IRL's Bow" response to one of your previous posts.

The team owners want a serious change in direction for this Series and this is an important element of that change to them.

Others who wonder about this include journalists such as Curt Cavin, and I believe Robin Miller has hinted at possible problems if the Delta Wing is not selected.

Since many of the owners do support this and very few are not officially on board, could we see a repeat of the split?

Only time will tell...

If I was an owner I wouldn't be too quick to throw myself on the Delta Wing hand grenade. They don't even know if it is going to work or is drivable. CFD's and wind tunnels in old turnpike tunnels in PA is all well and good, but engineers don't drive race cars. I suspect there are a number of practical issues with the car.

Actually I think having read the ganassi and bowlby comments here and there, I think this is all about the battle for money and maybe control, but probably mostly it's about money. It's widely known that the irl gets a kickback/cut of all dallara irl sales of parts and cars and here you have ganassi that would be gaining control of that via direct sales or royalties. Always follow the money.

In terms of an owners rebellion, these were the same clowns that helped contribute to the decline and split. Guys like Penske, Rahal, Ganassi, Kalkoven all had their hands on the steering wheel in the past two decades and all proved to be follower carpetbaggers. So I really don't want to hear from those knuckleheads, they have no credibility with me.

[Purist]

Then who the hell does have credibility with you?! Nobody by the sound of it! It doesn't sound like you'll ever even be satisfied with anyone who's running the operation!

I have FAR more faith in the team owners running the show, since it is their buck, their teams, their cars, their drivers on the line, than some corporate scheme.

Besides, you've already voiced plenty of times that you don't trust, care for, or put any credibility in the Speedway management, so there's NOBODY else left on the face of this Earth, if you won't put it in the hands of guys with gasoline in their veins!

It raises the question, what in God's name do you want, MS?!

[gttouring]

the Deltawing- may be novel, but since Indy cars are made for Indy, and not mainstreet, is it possible to modify the deltawing car, to make it actually more drivable, the grip needed at the front will be staggering to overcome the rear, and turn more than a gradual left, skinny tyres, and narrow track how do they think this will work outside of Chicago oval, and kansas?
it will not perform at MidOhio like the rFactor video game showed them going at it.
but i really have warmed to the approach.
it is USA open wheel essentially and well in the US its go big or go home, and the world still expects that- that's why 1000hp CART champcars/indycars were so tempting to Nigel et al. (i think anyway)

[JagtechOhio]

Purist,

Not answering for Star, but I'd suggest a cold martini and a few hours of Olympic coverage.

Star, the one point I can make with certainty: the specific design of the Delta Wing is held in high regard. Proof of concept remains an open question, not a reluctant fantasy. This is more than a trial balloon.