[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by deggis

Is the Weissach track still useful for actual performance testing for LMPs or just more like shakedown type of tests? Isn't it quite small track for a modern LMP, and a bit hazardous too safety-wise?

What do you mean by small? Isn't it nearly 3 km long? 2.9km or something?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

What do you mean by small? Isn't it nearly 3 km long? 2.9km or something?

It's narrow and with very little run-off, and most corners are relatively slow.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Roll out in 2013 could easily mean car on the ground, starting testing. It doesn't necessarily mean races entered, as you would think they would do some months of testing before racing. Though races in 2013 would be nice, if the car is ready.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see them at some WEC venues the next day after the race, similarly to how Audi done it in Sebring. Racing it in 2013 is out of the question, IMO.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

It's narrow and with very little run-off, and most corners are relatively slow.

Exactly what I meant...

Chris Harris/RS Spyder onboard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Fze5Gndeo

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Racing it in 2013 is out of the question, IMO.

I'm holding out for PLM. End of season debut and Porsche NA HQ is in Atlanta.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Racing it in 2013 is out of the question, IMO.

And I would like to add to this again, I don't think 2014 LMP1s are going to be legal for any race in 2013, so thinking about a racing debut in 2013 is probably pointless.

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

And I would like to add to this again, I don't think 2014 LMP1s are going to be legal for any race in 2013, so thinking about a racing debut in 2013 is probably pointless.

Agreed

[The Badger]

Their hybrid GTE car wasnt legal either , and it raced in ALMS .

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Their hybrid GTE car wasnt legal either , and it raced in ALMS .

Unclassified, and at no risk of "winning" overall. A brand-new LMP1 car though... you wouldn't really want to risk an unclassified car "winning" overall and then having to explain to everyone why it didn't actually win after all despite covering the most distance.

[Fogelhund]

Porsche asks to enter PLM, do you think they are turned away, because they are 2014 rules cars?

Would be kind of a fitting book ends when you think about it.

[porman]

PLM is probably a strong bet. Porsche doesn't exactly miss marketing opportunities.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

There are a lot of useful F1 drivers being tossed onto the scrap heap at the moment I expect some of them to end up in prototypes. I know some have said they don't want to do sports cars but if Porsche came knocking on the door.....

I never have quite understood the rush to source ex-F1 drivers for prototype racing. In my book, I think some of the ex-F1 drivers include those who just couldn't cut it and may have likely risen to their level of incompetence.

It can and has clearly worked, but I think that it is harder to be an "all around racer" these days in that you are able to excel in different types of cars (GT/prototype/formula) and types of racing (sprint/endurance). I think these days that drivers tend to become somewhat specialized. So being ex-F1 doesn't go very far with me personally (and I am just as big of a F1 fan as I am sports car/prototype fan). I wonder if those who are ex-F1 and are successful in sports car were just in the wrong type of racing (F1) to begin with!

Additionally, if I was in charge, I doubt I would be picking drivers who feel that racing sports cars is beneath them, or some sort of backup plan as they ease into retirement. I would want drivers who enthusiastic, want to win, don't consider it a hobby and have shown they can perform "in this type of racing". I don't see why Porsche would feel they would have to break in new drivers regardless of how good their F1 pedigree may have been.

I expect to see a mixture of...

* Continuity from the RS Spyder program (Patrick Long and others?)
* Proven free agent talent from the open market
* Some promotion of new talent, but via their own farm system.

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Unclassified, and at no risk of "winning" overall. A brand-new LMP1 car though... you wouldn't really want to risk an unclassified car "winning" overall and then having to explain to everyone why it didn't actually win after all despite covering the most distance.

I think that if they wanted to do it they could work out an arrangement. I expect there would be an unwritten agreement that if the car proves to be fast and competitive out of the box that they will hold it back (long stops, unscheduled stops, purposeful poor management of mileage, etc.) to prevent it from winning overall. However there can always be scenarios in which that can't be prevented. Imagine the leaders having massive mechanical issues late in the race and the Porsche winning overall. I think while a little embarrassing, that can be explained away.

Richard

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I never have quite understood the rush to source ex-F1 drivers for prototype racing. In my book, I think some of the ex-F1 drivers include those who just couldn't cut it and may have likely risen to their level of incompetence.

It can and has clearly worked, but I think that it is harder to be an "all around racer" these days in that you are able to excel in different types of cars (GT/prototype/formula) and types of racing (sprint/endurance). I think these days that drivers tend to become somewhat specialized. So being ex-F1 doesn't go very far with me personally (and I am just as big of a F1 fan as I am sports car/prototype fan). I wonder if those who are ex-F1 and are successful in sports car were just in the wrong type of racing (F1) to begin with!

I would want drivers who enthusiastic, want to win, don't consider it a hobby and have shown they can perform "in this type of racing". I don't see why Porsche would feel they would have to break in new drivers regardless of how good their F1 pedigree may have been.

I expect to see a mixture of...

* Continuity from the RS Spyder program (Patrick Long and others?)
* Proven free agent talent from the open market
* Some promotion of new talent, but via their own farm system.
Richard

So if you were in charge of the Porsche P1 programme you would discriminate against anyone with single-seater experience and fill the cars with your GT works drivers (who will drive the GTE cars?) and Carrera Cup drivers? And why can't F1 drivers want to race sportscars as well? You say you like both, can't they? Heidfeld and Liuzzi both did well racing prototypes and tin tops this year.

[Dario911]

Porsche may run its LMP1 in 2013, but I don't think this will happen in LM... I suggest they may run the car in some WEC races, it would be a tough test for the car, an interesting comparison with Audi and Toyota. Rivalry with Audi cousins is strong, I think they will not be in LM to show how much competitive the car could be... In WEC races Porsche may have some indications, without show how much car may be fast in LM.
I think next seasons will be very interesting...

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They have their test track at Weissach if they want to test the car without prying eyes peeking in, so... no.

Understood. I don't think they would do any pre-release testing there, but if they did test at the new track, I would think that would also mean they would be racing at nearby Road Atlanta in the PLM. After Audi and Toyota skipped the PLM, it would be great to see Porsche return with a prototype.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Porsche asks to enter PLM, do you think they are turned away, because they are 2014 rules cars?

Would be kind of a fitting book ends when you think about it.

Never thought of this. What a great send off for the ALMS. Probably sell more than a few tickets too... Low percentage probability of it happening but it should would be cool to see these cars through the esses.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Porsche may run its LMP1 in 2013, but I don't think this will happen in LM... I suggest they may run the car in some WEC races, it would be a tough test for the car, an interesting comparison with Audi and Toyota. Rivalry with Audi cousins is strong, I think they will not be in LM to show how much competitive the car could be... In WEC races Porsche may have some indications, without show how much car may be fast in LM.
I think next seasons will be very interesting...

All performance comparisons would be hard to make and/or pointless, because present vs. 2014 regs.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

So if you were in charge of the Porsche P1 programme you would discriminate against anyone with single-seater experience and fill the cars with your GT works drivers (who will drive the GTE cars?) and Carrera Cup drivers? And why can't F1 drivers want to race sportscars as well? You say you like both, can't they? Heidfeld and Liuzzi both did well racing prototypes and tin tops this year.

I am not sure why you concluded that the only options is either GT drivers or F1/single seat drivers? Why exclude existing prototype drivers? See my previous post as to what I think Porsche should do. Regarding F1 drivers not wanting to race in sports cars. I think if they wanted to do that, that is where they would be earlier in their career. I am not painting all F1 drivers with the same brush, but anecdotally, it seems that when faced with the end of their careers the comment "I have no interest in racing sports cars" comes out of a lot of mouths.

To me the word discriminate implies some type of litmus test and I think no single factor gives anyone thumbs up/down. I wouldn't say "no" to a driver just because he has F1 experience. I am saying I don't understand the implied preference that I see regarding ex-F1 drivers as a source for future prototype drivers.

For example, you mention Heidfeld. If he (or any other ex-F1 driver) has proven himself in prototypes previously (pre, during or post F1 career), I put him in the "proven quantity" category vs. "ex-F1 driver who is looking to get into prototypes". Someone else posted in this thread or elsewhere the same point. I think they tried to show that the bulk of "F1" drivers that could be considered for a prototype top team today have some type of prior prototype experience.

I have no doubt there are some ex-F1 drivers who have little or no prototype experience who could potentially be a great prototype racer. But why should someone like Porsche be the ones to experiment and figure out who works and who doesn't? For example I was a big Jacque Villeneuve fan while he was in F1, but by most accounts he was a mediocre to bad prototype racer for Peugot. I think that was a costly experiment for them.

With all of that said, from a pure curiosity perspective, I would love to see some ex/current F1 drivers in prototype racing just to see how they would work out. Jenson Button comes to mind. If I was to experiment, it would be with him, but his F1 career is not over yet and I don't see him being enticed into prototypes anytime soon.

Richard

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Unclassified, and at no risk of "winning" overall.

Obviously .

But to be honest , I dont expect to see the P1 Porsche race until its race debut .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Porsche asks to enter PLM, do you think they are turned away, because they are 2014 rules cars?

Would be kind of a fitting book ends when you think about it.

It could fit into the tri-wing class .

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

To me the word discriminate implies some type of litmus test and I think no single factor gives anyone thumbs up/down. I wouldn't say "no" to a driver just because he has F1 experience. I am saying I don't understand the implied preference that I see regarding ex-F1 drivers as a source for future prototype drivers.

I entirely agree.

[The Badger]

As do I . Way too much hype about ex-F1 drivers imo .

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Obviously .

But to be honest , I dont expect to see the P1 Porsche race until its race debut .

Agreed!

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

It will be interesting to see the philosophy behind the car. With Audi, everything is quite mechanical and set up for Le Mans, while Toyota perhaps owes more to the F1 idea of detailed aero development making it more of an all-round racer.

In a way I'm dreading seeing a Porsche with honking holes and a Sailfish fin. It keeps awake some nights!

[The Badger]

I hear ya ..... But , we know the ACO arnt entirely happy with the fin thing , so possibily they will have a cunning new idea , and get rid of that abortion !!!

The holes dont bother me at all . Im just looking forward to seeing Porsche's interpretation of the new aero rules , which we dont know yet either ..... so sleep well for the time being Spyder ..... Im more worried about their 991 to be honest .