PT admits to using traction control from 1994 onwards??

[JonesF1]

Originally posted by Snrub
Look at Penske's 1-2-3s. Mostly ovals where TC doesn't make any difference.

Wrong. A NASCAR mechanic/engineer once said that after 50 laps at Darlington the car was .5 secs faster a lap with TC then without. On a Superspeedway it might make no difference but on many ovals (especially short ones) TC is an advantage.

[Flatspot]

Anytime you are dealing with enough torque to spin the tires when you put the hammer down TC will be beneficial. This includes most tracks with the possible exception of wide ended superspeedways.

I think Paul has bit the hand that feeds him to some degree. Its just not a good idea to admit that you cheated and you knew you were doing it. If you were going to hire someone tomorrow, would you want to hire someone that would either be inclined to cheat behind your back or rat you out if you were cheating yourself? At the very least the comments he made were of poor judgement (he is still however my lead fantasy driver).

Why didn't this come out before? I'm sure everyone knew everyone else had some form of traction control but you can't accuse if you can't prove. Couple that with the fact that everyone was running something slightly different than the next guy and if you tell someone what they might want to look for you are likely to disclose technology you'd rather keep to yourself. This situation was raised in F1 with the advent of TC. The technology and the secrecy around it is somewhat self policing when it comes to spilling the beans.

[GTRMagic]

What possessed Paul Tracy to come out with this junk now?? I know he is always controversial, and most of his former adversaries are now enjoying gigs in IRL, but this seems very very stupid.... is there a rule in CART that says drivers can be fined or have points adjusted for bringing the sport into disrepure.. as PT has clearly done that here....

We all knew there were electronic and mechanical forms of traction control in the series in the past, but was there a need to advertise it now??

[Snrub]

How would you implement TC on a Nascar? (I thought since it uses a carb there's no ECU...) Regardless, I can't see how a Nascar would benifit from TC in a 50 lap situation. Any ideas?

Same in CART, I can't see how there would be a benfit on any oval (smallest has been 1 mile). They're not spinning tires accelerating from 150mph. Even on road courses, clearly a cheating TC system would be crude.

[Dov]

That's right...ChampCars are going to fast (even on a 1 mile oval) to be benefiting from TC.

[Flatspot]

Originally posted by Dov
That's right...ChampCars are going to fast (even on a 1 mile oval) to be benefiting from TC.

Originally posted by Snrub
They're not spinning tires accelerating from 150mph.

I tend to disagree with these statements. First off you can spin the wheels of a ChampCar accelerating from 150 mph, quite easily actually, and particularly when you take into account that you are likely shifting gears on the way. This also holds true for many ovals where it is advantagious to downshift in the enterance to get the additional torque coming off the corner. As an aside, keep in mind we are talking about turbochaged engines which have the additional effects of the opening and closing of wastegates which can also break you loose.

In most instances traction control devices not only involve the accelerator but include the transmission and other components in the drivetrain. Throw in the concept of varying surfaces between different venues, add paint and errant fluids etc. ect.

Add the component of driver error, which traction control can mitigate to a great extent, and I beleive there is a convincing argument that traction control can be beneficial on any circuit.

[Flatspot]

Oh, and I forgot accelrating from the pit lane where every second counts.

[veeten]

The main thing about Traction Control isn't about overall or straightline speed, it's about cornering speed. What tc does is allows the car to take deeper lines in the corners without the wheelspin comming on through the apex of the turn. With the number of "bullrings" in NASCAR, with very tight turns on either end, this comes at a distinct advantage. Remember, they are wrestling ( well, certain people at GM are...) with the future idea of changing from the present carburated pushrod engines to DOHC, fuel injected ones, especially with Toyota & Nissan entering CTS by '05 and NWC/BGN by '07.

The other interesting area in this is the fact that it doesn't matter wether the engine is N/A or Turbo/Supercharged, tc/lc works in both areas of employ, and the idea of a standardized ECU is the best way to insure compliance.

[Emfa]

Thought you guys might find this article about TC in NASCAR interesting.

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...766/index.html

Fuel economy is also mentioned as a place for benefit. The article claims widespread use... kind of interesting.

[veeten]

Hmmmm...just think, if you can brew-up a system like those for Stock cars, just think what the better teams in all sports can create when given half a chance.

and who says that RYR, DEI, and Roush Racing can't do the same...

[Snrub]

I didn't realize they could do that in Nascar, thought they were still using points distributers.

I can see the difference in a corner, but if we recall from F1, lap times didn't improve with TC.

Not trying to be a sh!t disturber, but I'd really like to see some evidence that accelerating at 150mph they're spinning the tires, before I buy that one.

[JonesF1]

Well, no one here is actually claiming you can light up the tires at 150mph but there is definitly some slippage depending on track design and track surface. There are also other advantages such as fuel economy, better tire wear, etc.

The NASCAR guys are infamous cheats who have tried everything thrice over. If Bill France says were going to strip your cars down to the nuts and bolts to find TC units you know there is something going on.

[Lee Janotta]

Agreed Jones... NASCAR's a totally different culture, where the only rule with regard to cheating is "Don't get caught!"

It's a totally different story in CART, F1, or at LeMans, where penalties are downright brutal (remember Tyrrel in '84?).

[Jay]

As I was discussing with Inigio Montoya in the F1 forum, it's almost impossible to check if the teams are using TC without having standardised ECUs. (e.g. Cart write's engine's control program, distributes it to the manufacturers and they design their engines around it) It's possible. But that is the ONLY way you can have a series with multiple manufacturers without traction control.